mr. perkins gave an answer that had mr.ence given the on abc news perhaps we would be talking about this issue and a lot of different ways. this is something that i think republicans -- there was a poll that showed that 58% of americans believe that a bigger should not have to bake a cake for a gay wedding if it goes against their sincerely held beliefs. i think this is something that republicans could harness -- to use a nixon term, there is a vital majority out there. it seems to be going really fast and in ways to contradict ways that they view the country, and ways that the country should work. paul: i have to say, i still think that people who are energized, to whom religious freedom is an issue, is a small minority. people do not feel afflicted in their own religious persuasion. by large, they feeling they are able to carry out religion in this country freely. they don't feel, when is up against things like wars and guns, it's more personal concern rather than a same. greta: that is interesting. given that this week r

mr. perkins for five minutes. mr. perkins: thank you for the opportunity to appear before you to discuss issued raised in the inspector general audit entitled the handle of sectionle with harassment and misconduct allegations by the department's law enforcement components. the f.b.i. policy on sexual harassment and sexual misconduct is very simple. the f.b.i. does not tolerate sexual harassment or sexual misconduct within the ranks. the f.b.i. has a robust disciplinary process guided by well established policies, procedures and practices. it consists of trained special agents inagents in the inspection division's internal investigation section who conduct thorough investigations of employee misconduct. when the investigation is completed, a team of experienced lawyers in the f.b.i.'s office of professional responsibility take over, reviewing the investigative materials and determining whether applicable policies,ion regulations laws or other legal standard were violated. and if so, what penalties should be imposed on e

mr. perkins. perkins: numbers of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to berg -- appear before you today on issues raised in the inspector general's audit. the fbi policy on sexual harassment and sexual misconduct is very simple. the fbi does not tolerate sexual harassment or sexual misconduct within the ranks. the fbi has a robust disciplinary process guided by well-established policies, procedures, and practices. they consist of trained special agents in the inspection divisions, internal investigation section who conduct thorough investigations of employee misconduct. when investigations are completed, the team of a sprint lawyers of the fbi's office of rational response ability take over. reviewing investigative materials in determining whether applicable policies, rules, regulations, laws, or other legal standards for violated and if so what penalties should be imposed on employees in question. up to and including dismissal. in addition, the office of the inspector general reviews all

mr. perkins: i cannot speak to that. provide the information once there has been a legal review that says that we determine legally that we are on solid ground to provide the information. mr. chaffetz: what was it before, mr. horowitz? mr. horowitz: there was no objection from the fbi as to fair credit reporting act, grand jury information. we got that material in fact in a 1998 and 1999 proceedings in district court in oklahoma. the department itself took the position that we were entitled to grand jury material, and two federal judges agreed. this has all changed since 2010, with no change in the law. the only thing frankly that occurred was, several hard-hitting reviews about how the fbi was handling some of its national security charges. other than that, nothing changed in 2010. mr. perkins: we have hundreds of people working there in the department of justice intended to be the fair arbiters who can get in and look under the hood and see and ferret out these problems. quite frankly, the reason the dea and the fbi are

mr. perkins for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman.good morning, chairman chaffetz, ranking member cummings and members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss issues raised an inspector general's audit entitled the handling of sexual harassment and misconduct allegations by the departments law enforcement components. the fbi's policy on sexual harassment and sexual misconduct is very simple. the fbi does not told with sexual harassment or sexual misconduct within the ranks. the fbi has a robust disciplinary process guided by well established policies procedures and practices. it consists of trained special agents in the inspection division, integral investigations section who conduct thorough investigations of employee misconduct. when the investigation is completed a team of experienced lawyers in the fbi's office of professional responsibility takeover. review and investigate materials and determine whether applicable policies, rules, regulations laws or other legal standards have been v

mr. perkins, is it like this at the other agencies? does everybody deal with these arcane rules at other agencies? >> congressman i can't speak for the other agencies but for the fbi we are exempt from title 5 and civil service rules, regulations and statutes. director comey can and has summarily fired individuals. we have highly structured disciplinary process within the bureau, will, as you go through the process it raises it up to the appropriate levels for the appropriate level of punishment. there are occasions when the conduct is soing green just and director can intercede and summarily dismissed somebody and has. >> mr. horowitz. >> my understanding that the fbi is unique in that regard as mr. perkins outlined and other three law enforcement components in the department have to follow title five rules and civil service rules. >> one last question, miss leonhart, and i will wrap up. is it true, miss leonhart, if you suggest a suspension longer than 14 days all the examples, i got paperwork couple dozen events, no one was ever sus

mr. perkins what about the fbi? is there anybody in the fbi that thinks it's okay to go hire a prostitute? >> no, sir we make it clear to our employees. >> but the message we're getting with no disciplinary action or time off with pay tends to reenforce that. mr. horowitz, is there congressional action that needs to be taken? do we need to change some of our laws to make it easier to fish people who are proved to have engaged in this? >> that's certainly something congress could look at. it's been noted the fbi has certain authorities the other three deny. one of the things that would help address these is that the oig, they get reported as they should to headquarters. that they get reported to the oig as they should and that we get cop miss of records that we need. promptly so that we can look at them proptly. that would help as well and it takes no congressal action because you have the law in act that says that should occur, but it's not. >> what do we do to fix that? somebody's going to have to be disciplined fo

mr. perkins. now we go to new york and evan wolfson head of freedom to mary. you just heard what one of the main opponents to this says, what is your side of the story here? >> i would say that tony perkins is really an outlier and what should be celebrated here is that the vast majority of americans have opened their hearts and changed their minds and moved forward to embrace the freedom to mary and the courts are following where that public opinion has gone. the reason that's happened is because gay people and nongay people have talked about shared values of treating others as you'd want to be treated we've talked about our love, our commitment, real families not just stereotypes and insinew wakess and the american people have moved. that's to be sell operated that's why we feel such hope going into this day in court that we'll be having. >> schieffer: let me ask you this question. the polls do show six in ten americans do favor gay marriage now. but regardless of what you may think of tony perkins and his group, there are some very sincere, thoughtful peopl

mr. perkins you personally did that. but the consequence is we have hundreds of people at the inspector general's office who can't do their job. and you, the fbi, are standing in their way. and the d.e.a. standing in their way. we're going to keep yanking you up here time after time after time if we have to. i'm fortunate enough to become the chairman of this committee. the very first hearing we had is on this. and i can promise you we will continue to yank you up here as long as this continues to be a problem. the act is clear. the inspector general is to have unfettered access to all records, not just the ones you want to choose from. this idea that an olc opinion is just pending and it's going on for close to a year is just intolerable. and there's not a prevailing attitude within the fbi or the d.e.a. that believes that the inspector general work is of value to those departments and agencies. otherwise, they would want them to come in and help clear their good name or ferret out problems and work to fix it. see, in t

mr. kevin perkins, associate deputy director of the fbi, the federal bureau of investigation. we welcome all of you and thank you all for being here. pursuant to committee rules all witnesses will be sworn before they testify. if you'll please rise and raise your right hand. do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? thank you. let the record reflect that all witnesses answered in the affirmative. in order to allow time for discussion, we would appreciate limiting your testimony to five minutes. your entire written statement will be made part of the record. the d.e.a. administrator ms. leonhart, we'll recognize you first. >> chairman chaffetz, ranking member cummings, distinguished members of this committee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the department's report on sexual harassment and misconduct allegations by the department's law enforcement components. d.e.a. has a single mission, to enforce our nation's drug laws. our more than 9,000 employees including over 4,600 special

mr. perkins outlined, that the other three law enforcement components in the department have to follow the title 5 rules and the civil service rules. mr. mulvaney: one last question, ms. leonhart, and i'll wrap up. if you suggest a suspension longer than 14 days -- and all the examples in these couple dozen events no one was ever suspended more than 14 days. is it true if you recommend or someone gets a suspension of more than 14 days that a merit system protection board takes over the investigation in the handling of that matter? administrator leonhart: not quite. if the deciding officials dull out discipline and it's more than 14 days' suspension, the employee can appeal it and when the employee appeals it it goes to the merit system protection board. mr. mulvaney: and who takes over the investigation of the matter when the merit system protection board gets involved? administrator leonhart: no one takes over the investigation because the investigation has already been done. this is at the very end of the disciplinary process. so the d.e.a. deciding official can say 30 days. mr. mulvaney

mr. perkins: i wouldn't say it was miscalculated. we saw the same thing last year in arizona. a lot of it comes down to the leadership, quite agree, as to whether or not there will be forceful in standing in defense of religious freedom. host: we hope you tune in. also on c-span radio at 10:00 eastern time. our guest this week is 20 perkins. he is the president of the family research council. "newsmakers" re-airs at 6:00 eastern. 3:00 for those of you on the west coast. and joining us is eric trager. we want to focus on yemen and the arab league. all of the confusing stories. thank you very much for being with us. guest: good to be with you, and happy easter and happy passover to your viewers. host: thank you. and i say confusing because we are sitting down with iran trying to negotiate a nuclear deal and how it is going to proceed on its nuclear capacity. and at the same time, we are fighting iran and yemen, either directly or indirectly did guest: it does get confusing. and i think that confusion is a big part of why we are seeing more assertiveness on the part of our arab a

mr. perkins that's the concern from this committee. we have hundreds of people working for the inspector general's office there in the department of justice. intended to be the fair arbiters to look under the hood and see and ferret out these problems. quite frankly, the reason that the dea and fbi are here today is they're the problem children. we've cited several times that atf and marshals and others not a problem. not an issue. they got problems in the departments within their agencies, don't get me wrong. they've got things they have to clean up, and we're going to work with them on it, but the reason you're sitting here today in a hearing, and i know we were very focused on the dea but the two agencies, the fbi as well as the dea, are impeding the ability to understand and unearth what the problems are. >> let me clarify. there's an apples and oranges issue, with regard to this particular report that we're here today for, there are process issues within the fbi that the deputy director has made changes. the inspector yerl is awar

mr. perkins, why does the fbi think it is a special and doesn't have to do to the law and don't do with the agencies are doing within the department of justice? >> mr. chairman, we are adhering to the law. i take exception to the inspector general's comments along those lines. let me tell you sir his latest letter dated yesterday there were five investigations noted. the records that they wish to receive are being delayed involved e-mail. we have turned over 35,000 e-mails to them a to r. 200 e-mails in question out of 35,000 that we are working with them to go through. we believe in the rule of law. we have a legal dispute with inspector general. >> mr. horowitz? >> they are not working with us to get us the 200 e-mails. they haven't given us the 200 e-mails. kurdistan is it because they believe they have a legal review to conduct. that's why what our understanding is asked why we're not getting them. for several of these matters, these are multi-months we've been waiting for them. there is no reason why we should not be getting the materials immediately. none whatsoever. i understand they