mr. prestowitz? >> yes. i recently drove over the new -- the oakland bay bridge in california, which is still being built. and, you know, the main spans of the bridge are being made in china and the reason for that is because initially chinese had a very low bid on the steel and fabrication of the main spans. it turns out they are way behind schedule and way overcost and california's not only not saving any money but also not generating the jobs it might have generated had it actually procured the bridge in the u.s. >> senator murkowski, go right ahead. >> thank you, mr. chairman. this kind of follows on to the chairman's question. i think we recognize that oftentimes, if we have a buy america requirement, that that may add to the cost. i appreciate you noting that sensitivity, that we've got to balance that. another area where we may be adding to cost is when we put in place federal requirements or mandates for production of renewable fuels, whether it's through federal or state renewable energy standards,

mr. prestowitz, you made that point, i believe. >> yeah, i did. i think it's an important point. i think there's a false sense widely spread that is a straight line. you know, you do basic r and d in a laboratory someplace and that guess to commercialization. and that's not really how it works. it's a typical -- very often it's somebody in the field that comes up with an idea that they throw in the lab and back and forth. and if you don't have the back and forth capability, i think that we've seen that in so many instances that what happens next depends on if you don't have the step before, then you don't have the next step that happen and it's pretty established economically and scientifically and that's the point. >> mr. holladay? >> they understand the innovation from the research side. if you don't have the manufacturing side to really understand the innovation from the research or have an industry pull and market pull mechanism, then you lack that innovation and as you lose the manufacturing, you lose those opportunities. >> mr. wolff? >> there's a wonderful book thaw may ha

mr. prestowitz? >> i recently drove over the oakland bay bridge in california, which is still being built. the main span is being built in china, and the reason for that is initially, the chinese had a very low bid on the steel and fabrication. well, it turns out that they are way behind schedule and way over cost, and california is not only not saving any money, it is not generating the jobs it would have had actually procured the bridge in the u.s. >> senator murkowski? >> this goes to the chairman's question. oftentimes, if we have a buy- america program, that may add to the cost. there is another area where we may be adding to cost is when we put in place federal requirements or mandates for production of renewable fuels, whether it is through federal or state renewable energy standards, clean-energy standards that the president has proposed a new federal mandate for. the chairman has been working on some legislation. i think we recognize in an effort to comply with these requirements, sometimes