mr. pummill. understand the opm regulations indicate relocation incentives should be used sparingly. how can va seriously conclude that all ses positions are critical needs and difficult to fill when normally there are dozens of applications to fill senior filled positions? >> i don't think we can. i think that when we were using the avo program, that we weren't paying attention to everything we should be paying attention. and we weren't looking at all the procedures and policies that were in place. one of the things that the dona hold. quote, i would say this is probably true.po you stand by your statement?s >> i did say that. >> thank you. no further questions. >> thank you.er i yield back, mr. chairman.ou wi >> mr. mckenrick, did you writee a letter to the deputy secretary sloan gibson asking to be moved back to philadelphia in the summer of 2014?ilade >> i did not. >> you did not.e su did >> chairman, i did not. >> okay, thank you. miss brownlee? >> thank you, mr. chairman. i just wanted to sa

mr. pummill -- again, mr. mmill, the office of personnel management guidelines preclude any salary increases for ses employees across all federal agencies, and back into ago secretary shinseki stop all the performance awards. but my understanding is vba paid $321,000 in salary increases to reassign vba employers in fiscal year 2013, 2014 and 2015. so can you explain that the vba justified these salary increases speak was yes, congresswoman. the first case that i was involved in was actually antoine out and when we were negotiating and we're talking salary, i had to call over to the chief of staff and ask, are we allowed to do a salary increase for ses. i thought there was a pay freeze it and as i got back was, actually building you can increase their salary is during a pcs move. so if these duties and responsibilities are such that there were complex or greater, amid lower ses to it higher level, or there's issues such as los angeles or baltimore, serious issues, long-term issues that should not be able able to

mr. pummill, colonel, i'll goio you first. you've said some elegant statements tonight about accountability. congressman walsh certainly brought the issue up. what this all boils down to in my opinion from our veterans is the lack of accountability and the lack of trust within the va system. so just personally i find it incredulous that we have to subpoena witnesses to testify when they are asked to do so. going back to a direct question. you said there was a lady that told you that you could not -- will you or will you not reveal that name? >> christina detucci. just a clerk. >> that's fine. we don't want to bring her into the morass. i just want to make sure that we have an open dialogue and that there are no even innuendos of trying to hide or protect. i will ask each of you three -- i realize you have done outstanding work and we appreciate your service to the country and to the va system. but how many of you have personally been interviewed or questions by federal agents on this ig report? >> i consider an ig investigator

mr. pummill.nderstand the opm regulations indicate relocation incentives should be used sparingly. how can va seriously conclude that all ses positions are critical needs and difficult to fill when normally there are dozens of applications to fill senior filled positions? >> i don't think we can. i think that when we were using the avo program, that we weren't paying attention to everything we should be paying attention. and we weren't looking at all the procedures and policies that were in place. one of the things that the secretary has done, he's path hold on that and inside of vba i put a task force together to look at all moves, all incentives, all promotions, everything that we do for our senior executives to make sure that everything is being done for the right reasons. i think we leaned heavy towards -- it was so important to get the right person at the right place at the right time to take care of our veterans that we weren't looking at the second and third order and we need to do a better

mr. pummill. i said in a hearing two weeks ago the va continues to have what seems to be a crisis in confidence with levels at the va. everyday it every day it seems like there's something new. we heard projects with whistleblower retaliation and now this issue of collusion among officials to line their pockets. when i go back to my district of the veterans and the taxpayers that are fearless of what's going on in the agency. constituents work hard for their money into play by the rules and they want this nonsense to stop so sitting here thinking and listening to this testimony go on and on. and mr. pummill you are a retired army colonel and i appreciate your service. but i think and i guess i want to know what do you think the effect of the troops would be if the commander did the rules to his or her own benefit and then what does it do to the team, what does it do to the troops and what would it do in your former life and looking at the situation right now? >> it's devastating that they are not

mr. danny pummill, principal deputy undersecretary for benefits. miss diana rubens, philadelphia regional office. mr. robert mckenrick, director of the los angeles regional office. miss kimberly graves, director of the st. paul regional office. mr. antoine waller, director of the baltimore regional office. miss linda halliday, deputy inspector general for the v.a.'s office of inspector general. i also invited former undersecretary hickey to testify tonight as a private citizen as her activities were heavily featured in the report. however, she did not respond to my request. i would ask the witnesses to please stand and raise your right hand so that we swaear yo if will for your testimony. the do you solemnly swear under penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to provide is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? thank you. let the record reflect al witnesses answered in the affirm. before we start, i want to read rule 3-e of the committee's rules. whereby it states each witness who is to appear before the committee or a sub

mr. pummil i know you are not the one that made this decision. i am sure whoever that person is probably watching or listening but it's not acceptable. i am sick and tired of asking for information from the department and being given a run around. the i was asked if he could provide testimony and i said of course you can provide testimony if you provide a written statement prior to and the reason for that is to allow members of this committee to read that testimony and be able to formulate questions that are important to that testimony and we don't have that so because of that i'm not going to recognize you for an opening statement but i will be asking some questions if you in the next few minutes. ms. rubens, the ig report concluded that you use your position of authority for personal and financial benefit. what evidence do you have to dispute that conclusion? >> sir i've been advised by counsel not to answer that question to protect my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution. >> what the wreck or to reflect ms. rubens has asserted

mr. pummill, you obviously were subpoenaed because miss hickey left her position, and i suspect that we may invite her to appear before us at a later date. but with that, if there are no further questions, we are now in recess. >>> coming up tonight remarks from president obama on the keystone xl pipeline and his administration's decision to reject the request from a canadian company to build it. he spoke earlier today at the white house and we'll show you a portion of those comments now. >> several years ago the state department began a review process for the proposed construction of a pipeline that would carry canadian crude oil through our heartland to ports in the gulf of mexico and out into the world market. this morning secretary kerry informed me that after extensive public outreach and consultation with other cabinet agencies, the state department has decided that the keystone xl pipeline would not serve the national interests of the united states. i agree with that decision. this morning i also had the opportunity to speak with prime minister trudeau of canada, and while he express