mr. scanlon or mr. cardamone, would you care to comment on that? >> i think absolutely. we're working very closely with parties on using more modern forensic techniques in wildlife crime. dna testing. we work with the south african government in particular to see whether or not they can enhance their in-house capacity, because we need to know where the stock is coming from, and if we can track it from destination to home, it will be advantageous. we're also looking at other technologies. we've also raised the discussion with china as well, and other states in the asian region with respect to using modern techniques for tracking wildlife contraband, which would make it much easier to carry out enforcement measures. >> i found dr. douglas-hamilton's pair fries if the buying stops, the killing can do, quite compelling and intend to raise this particular issue with national leaders in east africa on my upcoming visit. thank you so much for your testimony here today. >> thanks a lot, senator coons. senator udall? >> thank you, chairman kerry, and really appreciate you holding

mr. scanlon's idea that you have to go to the person at the top, who is driving the trade, what is the demand and who is that person or who is that syndicate and just the low level poachers is not getting at the problem. the major difficulty of finding who that head of the syndicate is is the ability to hide behind legal structures throughout the world in various jurisdictions around the globe and that's either through a shell corporation that hides its money in a secret bank account and also hides behind a trust, nominee trust or foundation, so there is layers upon layers upon layers of opacity in the financial system and in the corporate structures that enable these syndicates to hide behind, and i think that's the thing that the international community can do as far as an attempt to cut off the money supply. . >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you very much, senator. appreciate it. you mentioned earlier, let me ask a quick question. on the seized material, how much of that finds its way back into the market? senator, do you have any sense of that, dr. hamilton? do you have a sense of th

mr. scanlon or mr. cadamone? >> we're working on more modern forensic techniques in wild life crime. we are working to see whether or not they can enhance their in- house capacity because we need to know where the stock is coming from. if we can track it from the destination, that would be advantageous. we have also raised the discussion with china as well and other states in the asian region with respect to using modern techniques for tracking wild like contraband which would make it much easier to carry out enforcement measures. >> i found dr. douglas- hamilton's paraphrases quite compelling in raising this particular issue with national leaders in east africa. thank you for your testimony here today. >> thank you. senator udall. >> thank you, chairman kerry. i appreciate you holding this hearing in focusing on this issue because i believe it is a very important one. i just recently returned from africa on a trip that was focused more on hiv aids and it's incredible what we're doing there, but that is another sad part of the picture. we had an opportunity when there was a national