mr. schaeffer to respond for a minute. we kind of abide by rules. mr. mckinley gets another five minutes. we're going to let you interject here before he goes next again. >> i very much appreciate that mr. chairman. i'll be quick. it really is useful to compare what pennsylvania said in its complaint in 2012 about the condition of that site to what they told epa. it's different. you'll see the states saying the sites leaked. you'll see the company, imminent and substantial endangerment to the environment. you don't see that in any testimony to the epa. the enforcement action the state took, and i don't want this to get lost came after the citizens filed a notice of their intent to sue the company. pennsylvania if they tell you that, that's great. we didn't get that feeling. >> unfortunately, 17 left. the great state of the commonwealth of pennsylvania to respond. >> yes. i'm very familiar with little blue run. this is familiar to me in pennsylvania. signed a consent decree going through the procedures to close this facility. we actually this had been lo

mr. shafer. >> thank you for the opportunity to testify, i'm eric schaeffer director of the environmental integrity project. we have worked with citizens who live and work around coal ash sites. i would like to speak to what certainty might mean to those people. some of whom have been living with this problem for very long time. i really don't think folks in the securities whether you call it hazardous or what you call it peanut butter. they want the coal ash out of their groundwater, they don't want it in their lungs, and they would rather not have 39 million tons of it dumped in the river as duke energy did to the good people of north carolina less than a year ago. we hear that those kind of problems are things of the past they are not going to happen again. obviously they did happen. leave the question is whether the epa's rule or anything congress does gives people most affected by coal ash the kind of certainty they are looking for. i want to point out that this issue has been bumped around for about 30 years. in that time, a lot of these disposal sites which are nothing more than holes in the