mr. schulsky helped us understand the role of the press in a democracy. the way i put it now, a trustworthy press is the immune system of democracy. >> how do you define trustworthy in today's polarized environment? >> basically if a news organization has a code of ethics, they have a diversity policy where they listen to everyone, and if they have a process for accountability and corrections, i'm willing to do the honor system thing and start by assuming that they're going to be trustworthy. >> we've seen a decline in trust in the media over a series of decades. and as a result, people are questioning, who gets to define who is credible and who's not? who defines what's news and what's not? >> you really don't have someone on tv who's not going to be honest with you. the problem is that even if you point out that something's a lie, that what listeners will hear will be the lie. and if you hear the lie again over and over again, it starts to feel like truth. what's happening now is the pointer institute created the international fact checking network. tha