mr. shaikh. >> thank you. very quickly, i guess on the muslim side of things, just given the things that's happened, we really need to pay attention to the marginalization narrative. i think muslims are your best partners in this. i think they understand that we can't do it without each other. it's a common enemy. they're not going to think twice. if i'm there with my family i'll be killed just along with everyone else. we're in this together. let's move together. >> you can help us make those connections. >> we're ready for an era of radical social change. the question for us is are we up for this new era? we've grown content with a system in which a lot of things don't work. we try to address problems and it gets lost and there's a process and everyone's waiting for someone else to do something and what we're getting in terms of outputs is so sub optimal if the u.s. government were a corporation people would lose their jobs. the questions are can we move fast enough? if so, what can we do to slash the obstac

mr. shaikh.n it looks like to me that you're trying to do countermessaging, but we have a government that's spending millions and millions of dollars on old school forms of media and as you said mr. garre ten steven ross, very crude efforts. what do you imagine could be done if we were going to do an effective social media/online countering effort? >> thank you very much. you know, in some kind of defense to the center for strategic counterterrorism communications, we have a very small group of people. their trying to con the space and they're -- contest the space, and they're trying to do something, and i get that. yes, crude is a very polite statement. look at the end of the day, if you want to fight back against recruitment of 15-year-old kids you need to work with 15-year-old kids. when i see my own kids showing examples of what affects them and what motivates them and what resonates with them, it tells me that this is exactly what you need to do; talk to the kids. they can do a really good j

mr. shaikh. you're trying -- looks like to me you're trying to do counter-messaging but we have a government that is spending millions and millions of dollars on old-school forms of media and as you said, very crude social media efforts. what do you imagine could be done if we were going to do an effective social media counter-messaging effort? >> thank you very much. in some kind of defense to the senator phenomenon strategic counterterrorism and communications, they have a very small group of people. they're trying to contest the space, and they're trying to do something, and i get that, and yes, crude is a very polite statement. at the end of the day, if you want to fight back against recruitment of 15-year-old kids, you need to work with 15-year-old kids. when i see my own kids showing examples of what affects them and what motivates them and what resonates with them, it tells me this is exactly walt you need to do. talk to the kids. they can do a really good job. with respect to producing ma

mr. berger. our next witness is mubin shaikh. mr. shaikh is an expert on radicalization, terrorism and violent extremism. he consults devices with the u.s. state department u.s. national counterterrorism center, u.s. special operations central command, nato interpol and other agencies. first of all, i appreciate and thank you for having a change of heart after 9/11 and all the support you have given this government in terms trying to counteract and also trying to help other young people who might be inspired not be inspired. looking forward to your testimony. mr. shaikh. made side -- [speaking in native tongue] >> on september 11 2001 citing stuart and immediately asked them to loud god is great. a celebratory moment was quickly muted when i asked myself, what if the office building i was working on was similarly struck airplane. i would've perished with everyone else just as innocent people perished on that day. for me september 11, 2001 was for all intents of purposes the end of this man said. allow me to explain how this began for

mr. shaikh, your work sin credible. i see you online trying to push back on this. there are easy tactics -- i know them, as you said, from politics, how to get more voice and virality to messaging. the data you're presenting as muslims killing muslims, and this is a group killing more muslims. look at their fancy means compared to what we're not doing. so i just want to start with mr. shaikh, it likes to me like you're trying to do countermessaging, but we have a government that's spending millions and millions of dollars on old school forms of media and, as you said, mr. gartenstein-ross, very crude social media efforts. what do you imagine could be done if we're going to do an effective social media online countermessaging effort? >> thank you very much. in some kind of defense to the center for strategic counterterrorism communications, they have a very small group of people. they're trying to contest the space. they're trying to do something, and i get that. yes, crude is a very polite statement. look, at the end of the day, if you want to fight back against re

mr. shaikh, your work sin credible. i see you online trying to push back on this. there are easy tactics -- i know them, as you said from politics how to get more voice and virality to messaging. the data you're presenting as muslims killing muslims, and this is a group killing more muslims. look at their fancy means compared to what we're not doing. so i just want to start with mr. shaikh, it likes to me like you're trying to do countermessaging, but we have a government that's spending millions and millions of dollars on old school forms of media and, as you said, mr. gartenstein-ross, very crude social media efforts. what do you imagine could be done if we're going to do an effective social media online countermessaging effort? >> thank you very much. in some kind of defense to the center for strategic counterterrorism communications, they have a very small group of people. they're trying to contest the space. they're trying to do something, and i get that. yes, crude is a very polite statement. look, at the end of the day if you want to fight back against recru

mr. herger. our next witness is mubin shaikh. mr. is a former muslim extremist an expert on radicalization, terrorism and countering and violent extremism. he's consoled on the topic of isis with you as special operations command, u.s. special operations command center man, native, interpol and other agencies. first of all, richard shea, i appreciate and thank you for having a change of heart after 9/11 and for all the help and support you have given this government in terms of trying to counteract this and also trying to help other young people who might be conspired, not be inspired looking forward to your testimony, mr. shaikh. >> thank you sir. shalom come integrating of jesus christ, peace and he. on september 11 2100 striving to work when i first heard a plane had struck one of the two towers of the world trade center buildings. i exclaimed god is great. my celebratory moment was quickly me when i asked myself what if the dirt office building i was working in a similar struck by a plane? i would've perished on the nose just as t

mr. shaikh. >> very quickly in the muslim side of things given things that have happened we really need to pay attention to the marginalization narrative. i mean i think muslims are your best partners in this. i think muslims understand we can do without each other. it's a common enemy. they are not going to think twice. i'm there with my family. i will be killed along with everyone else so we are in this together. >> help us make those connections. mr. gartenstein-ross. >> i agree with what jm berger said that we are in a radical change. the question for us is are we up for this? i think we have grown content with a system in which a lot of things don't work where we tried to address problems and it gets lost somewhere in the bureaucracy and there's due process and everyone is waiting for someone else to do something and what we are getting in outputs is so suboptimal that of the u.s. government or corporation with loose their jobs. the questions are can we move fast enough? are there too many bureaucratic obstacles and if so what can we do to stop those obstacles and are we transparent e

doing it is really limited to and it takes one of these ted kaczynski or helene shaikh mohammed or if you believe the fbi mr eisen it takes one of these real violent entrepreneurs to take one of these ideas and how can we turn a little wooden boxes or will bomb. that is actually a project that requires a lot of imagination. how can we killed 3,000 people with box cutters. and it takes a certain type of mind that is actually very, very rare to do these sorts of things. that is one possibility. the 2nd possibility the one i favor is that terrorists are not imaginative people in the suicide bombing which caught on in the early 80s and early 90s was unheard of basically before the end it worked and so everyone replicates what worked last time and you need a demonstration project for one of these things as possible. third possibility you look at the cyber arena and say actually, the promises wrong there are a huge amount of cyber attacks. the proliferation has empowered states to go and attack lots of people which is exactly what they are doing. but we have not seen is the truly catastrophic example but we are o