mr. shullman was misleading everyone. did he do it on pumps? -- purpose? the fbi should find out because that sill legal. on friday the irs apologized for targeting conservative political groups making it more difficult for them to achieve tax exempt status. shulman left the irs in november. the agency now blames targeting on, quote: low level employees. and then there is the continuing controversy over benghazi. today president obama said. this. >> the whole issue of this -- of talking points, frankly, throughout this process has been a side show. what we have been very clear about throughout was that immediately after this event happened, we were not clear who exactly carried it out, how it had occurred, what the motivations were. >> bill: the president believes that he and his administration did nothing wrong. by telling the world that an anti-islamic video might have caused the terror attack in benghazi. but there was at the time strong evidence the video had nothing to do with the attack. the white house, the state department, both knew that. so, who

mr. shullman, you were appointed by mr. bush when? >> i was nominated in 2007 and confirmed in 2008. >> and served until? >> november 2012. >> a you served in the last year the bush administration and for the first term of the obama administration. is that correct? >> credit. >> there might be many reasons that you would be at the white house. what would be some of those reasons? >> the easter egg roll with my kids. questions about the administerability of tax policies they were thinking of. our budget, helping the department of education streamline application processes for financial aid. >> you are aware that you're under oath today. >> very aware. >> address testimony in response to his question is you have never had any conversations on this subject with anyone at the white house though you were there 118 times. >> just so i am clear, i have no memory. it would not have been appropriate to have a onversation with anyone at the white house about the subject of discriminating against conservative groups in any part of this. >> let m

mr. everson. 157 times suleman, you know this shullman, he goes over there. can you because you know the job. is there anything on earth that could get him in that white house 157 times? can you give me any reason? >> well, i think he bungled his question badly. >> no, just your opinion. is there anything that would drive an irs commissioner over to the white house 157 times? >> well, the administration was considering tax reform and also healthcare in which the service has a major role. so, the service needs to be part of conversations about what is going to happen if that bill becomes law, so that's totally legitimate. but what i did do, bill, last year i testified before the expressed concern about the service being wrapped up in the affordable care act. just the conversation we are having right now, it can create a perception that the irs duties have somehow changed to such a degree that they lose their historic independence. and every commissioner knows once you walk in those doors you have got to assume a total independence. so that sometimes call thing