mr. snowbarger, we haven't forgotten about you. uarantee i'll have at least one question for you at some point. [laughter] >> i appreciate that. >> i first want to go to mr. bloom. you said we did not involve ourselves in the day-to-day operations. that's your statement. >> yes, sir. >> can we put up on the slide the e-mail from mr. feldman to -- oh, we have it. okay, good. can you look at this e-mail then? >> i'd like to, sir, but i can't. >> okay. well, i'll read it for you. this is from mr. feldman, part of the auto task force, correct? >> yes. >> do you know him? >> yes. >> this is to general motors. have you begun a dialogue with uaw over your desire to see the hourly plans terminated? at a minimum, this could get messy and the uaw should -- >> i was, and i don't think i'm copied on this e-mail grsm let me just ask this question, is that involvement of the auto task force in day-to-day operation? >> >> i think this is a matter that touches on the delphi litigation, so i'm, unfortunately, not -- >> let's go to the next one. do w

mr. snowbarger, thank you very much. we are going to recess for one minute, and then we have a final panel after that. thanks so much. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> want to welcome our second panel of witnesses. again i apologize for the day's schedule. all your great wisdom is only going to get to a couple members of congress. there's so many different things at this hour, but we really want to get this hearing in. we first have the associate director of the herr berth a -- herbert a. stifle institute. dr. thomas kokin -- did i get it right? that means i didn't get it right. you're being kind. from mit, and ms. dalmea. thank you for being here. if you were here earlier, the custom of the committee is to swear everyone in. so if you'd please stand, raise your right hand. do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give to this committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? mr. eye kinison, you're up first. >> good afternoon, chairman jordan, ranking

mr. snowbarger began to talk about the pension plan for the chrysler plan. they have 1.5 million beneficiaries. general motors has that many. we have to evaluate this against the real world alternatives. if they are allowed to liquidate -- >> i understand. you need to understand that a whole lot of this looked arbor cherry to us. just so you know. -- arbitray to us. just so you know. my friend mr. johnson sent the e-mail referencing the provisions. it is important to identify. greg martin was an official at gm. the fact that mr. bloom was on a cc does not prove anything except the fact that gm was in control of the gm. the treasury was an observer, not able to dictate. that is what we found that gm common throughout the bailout, remained under private control. i do not see it from this memo that this indicates it was not gm officials leading the dance. i wanted to point that out. i understand the concerns my colleagues have. i share many of those concerns. i wanted to correct the record. >> i'm going to allow myself five minutes. the most important today we