mr. snowden with espionage and theft. this past thursday the new york times described mr. n as a whistleblower, not a criminal. "considering the enormous value of information he has revealed mr. snowden deserves better than a life of permanent exile fear and flight. he may have committed a crime to do so but he has done his country a great service. it is time for the united states to offer mr. snowden a plea bargain or some form of clemency that would allow limb to return home. they would at least substantially reduce punishment in light of his role as a whistleblower and a life advocating for greater privacy and far stronger oversight of the intelligence community. the new york times takes the nsa to task with details of its abuses and shaky legal reasoning and concludes "when someone reveals that government officials have routinely and deliberately broken the law, that person should not face life in prison at the hands of the same government. that's why rick legit who leads the nsa task force on the snowden leek told cbs news that he would consider amnesty if mr. snowden

state of mind later we'll have a debate about all of this too what's the current state of mind of mr snowden well you know his morale is pretty good. he is so grateful for the support that he's received recently from some of the world's leading newspapers including the new york times that called for him to be treated leniently to be given clemency but even more than that he's grateful for the global debate at his disclosures have set off and that open courts are reviewing the programs that he revealed and now congress is considering historic legislation even the president's own advisers are telling him that the n.s.a. has gotten out of control and needs to be reined in that was what hope to accomplish and that's what he has accomplished so that's what he meant when he said his mission has been accomplished. yeah i don't think that he meant the mission accomplished this wasn't the president on the aircraft carrier saying the war is over what it was just starting what he meant by that is that his job is done his job was to bring the public into the debate to take these secret programs and brin

you should meet the press used to mr snowden's information has been profoundly in the public going to shoes doing a great deal of good is there any area where do you think it's been harmful. well no i don't think so but i do think that it's certainly people are free to disagree you know what one one line of attack that you hear is that it's one thing for mr snowden to have revealed what the n.s.a. was doing in the united states and quite a different thing for him to have revealed what the n.s.a. is doing abroad but i see that very differently you know the n.s.a. is part of the united states military the american people have a right to know what the n.s.a. is doing around the world in our name unless the disclosures would reveal sensitive sources and methods and harm national security i don't think there's any good evidence larry that these disclosures have caused harm and i think there's a huge amount of evidence that they've caused great good by launching a incredibly significant debate not just in the united states but around the world you're in touch with him the you kind of his wi

mr. snowden's trace.world consider him a hero the governments have been able to realize how their privacy is being invaded to take steps to reform the abuses that we know now about to convene the investigation like the one that we are here to participate in today. all kinds of governments all over the world are exploring their own interest and their own benefits the great sacrifice that mr. snowden made and i know that he's very gratified the government are taking seriously. but what has happened is also there are lots of government to taken advantage of the trees that he made and the sacrifice and bravery that he's shown, there are very few governments in fact a tiny handful who are extending a reciprocal courtesy to him protecting his rights the way that he decided to protect all of ours. and because of that he currently is in a situation that is very uncertain where his own government is attempting to subject this persecution that led him for decades about the rest of his life for having come forward a

mr. snowden to return to the u.s. with dignity."to talk about it is cnn political commentator and republican strategist anna navarro in miami. anna, are you on board with making the case for snowden to be granted asylum in the u.s.? >> absolutely not. and you know, i think the obama administration is not either. we have heard susan rice, the top nsa official assuming she's got her talking points this right saying there's no way that will happen and shut it down. it would set a dangerous precedent, like paying blackmail to somebody who compromised the u.s.'s national security secrets who has cause international incidents for the united states and palling around with some of the folks who are the most anti-american in this world like putin and the chinese government and also people who go and crack down on dissidents and crack down on privacy, you think there's privacy in russia or china, mr. snowden? he could have stayed here, made his case as a whistle-blower. he could have stayed here, he would have gotten a fair shake from the med

and congress is more likely to act reforms that would bolster the disclosures that mr snowden made and that would be seen were politically by their constituents as someone deserving of clemency of some sort now an argument against snowden being able to reenter the u.s. as a free man is that it doesn't offer enough deterrence and it will lead to more leaks what do you make of that argument well that's the beauty of amnesty it neither forgives nor can do nice any of the conduct at issue it simply overlooks it and that's why amnesty would be particularly appropriate in this kind of in this kind of case and moreover i don't think most people are willing to give up their entire life and their statehood to do what mr snowden did he has been publicly punished quite visibly and quite publicly more than enough and that the fact that he did what he did from somewhere else is because bradley manning and tom drake and bill binney were already a deterrent enough that he cannot go through channels absolutely just one right thank you so much for coming in and weighing in on edward snowden growing pop

mr. snowden have nothing to do with the privacy rights and civil liberties of american nsazens, or even the collection programs. indeed, these documents, and we have heard the number 1.7

mr. snowden. i heard him on television say that he went there with the intent to scrape our systems. that he obtained a scrape tool. and he began to scrape over i believe a two-month period as much as he could get ahold of. this isn't somebody who comes upon something and says, this isn't the right thing for the government to do. i want to go out and talk to people about it. he came there with the intent to take as much material down as he possibly could. >> do you agree with chairman rogers that he may have had help from the russians? >> he may well have. we don't know at this stage.

mr. snowden? >> he is a person who is charged, will be charged with a variety of crimes. when he has -- legal representation and if those lawyer want to talk about a resolution of the case, we would obviously engage in those conversations. >> but -- that means that it is -- you haven't ruled it out? >> clemency, a -- simple, you know, no-harm, no-foul. i think that would be going too far. but in the resolution of this maer, with an acceptance of responsibility, you know, we would always, you know, engage in those kinds of conversations. >> as the fact -- does the fact that the d.c. court did rule against the nsa make him more of

mr. snowden. i heard him on television say that he went there with the

mr. snowden is saying, said that it has provoked a debate that has been useful in this country. and what snowden said to me was, i've brought the american public to the table. and he also said, if in fact he's smeared and his reputation is ruined, he said, if i end up in a ditch at the end of the day and reform comes out of this, it

mr. snowden's case. on this issue, c- span democrat tweets in next call comes from frank in eustis, florida, democrats line. go ahead caller: hey, how are you doing. did wasedward snowden he did not for monetary gain but as a patriot. i believe that americans are losing their rights daily. facial recognition and daily it is getting worse and worse. the government intrusion charlize theron i believe it is time for a hard look at what going on in this country and that we need to get a handle on surveillancet's procedures. mike, republican line. we think of the "the new york " call for clemency? caller: every time a president takes awhere him and to protect the country. when they do this, they ask him if he is going to be loyal against giving any information to hurt our foreign policies. we take that oh seriously. this man should not have been given any security clearance whatsoever. ,ow he got it, why you got it but is a story you should respond to it? i don't believe so. we used to shoot traitors back in t

mr. snowden is a hero. mr. snowden is a traitor. contract tosigned a get a job, like anybody else.f you go to your job and you steal, you would be fired. he has stolen information. he tries to run with it. he says book, i stole this information. now, help me. mr. snowden is going to get it. he will come back to america. any other place that he goes, honestly, he should be targeted. that is good for him, but kidnapping. restim in there with the of the wolfson say this is what you did. host: john and columbus, ohio. we will take your calls for the rest of the morning. a few other stories for you today. here is an obituary on japan's last soldier of world war ii. he died on thursday. the last japanese imperial soldier emerged from hiding in the jungles of the philippines and surrendered 29 years after the end of world war ii. he died on thursday at 91 years old. he died at a tokyo hospital after a brief stay there. he was an intelligence officer who came out of hiding's in fatigues. he surrendered only when his theer commander reversed order stu stay behind and spy on american troops.

mr. snowden's actions or motivations. if any individual can object to the government's actions and take it within himself to reveal classified information, we can't protect foreign policy. moreover the sensational way in which these disclosures have come out have more often shed more heat than light. in ways that we may not fully understand for years to come. >> former acting director o -- mc [ laughter ] li, what are your response to his statements? and to the president? >> maybe it's true, maybe his judgment is right. he hasn't told us any specifics nor has anyone else. maybe we shouldn't expect that after all it's all secret right? except those exact same things were said about me by the president and the vice president and other people like mclaughlin and they were said by chelsea manning. and not one specific was ever brought up validating those concerns about processes being broken or not. i think we circulate take this with a great deal of skepticism. mr. snowden has found the only way that that information could h

mr. snowden's adviser, mr. sener, american civil liberties union's speech privacy and technology project. hear what he has to say about granting snowden clemency. >> washington is full of people who broke the law by lying to congress, by engaging in illegal spying, by ordering the torture of prisoners. we haven't seen prosecution of those officials and a lot of hammering about the precedent that's being said about not prosecuting those people. let's not get on a high horse and say oh, dear, if we don't prosecute this person, we're going to set a bad precedent. >> that's a very good point. for the legal perspective on all of this, i want to bring in my two brilliant guests. mark o'meara and paul callan. congratulations for making it to new york. >> i'll be here a while through the storm. >> i think you'll be here a while. what the legal adviser just said, we've had plenty of circumstances where there hasn't been the hand ringing about setting a good precedent and setting a good example yet what mr. snowden did is

mr. snowden's disclosures have been profoundly valuable to the country and the world. they have changed the whole debate here. >> snowden says i have won, my work is done. does that mean we won't see any more leaks, we won't see more stories? >> i don't think he could get a fair trial here. in fact, i don't think he should have a trial. he's been granted asylum. >> the fact that he's done this, he should get a pardon or preferential treatment, absolutely wrong. >> giving him amnesty would be idiotic. he ought the to be prosecuted for treason and, if convicted by a jury of his peers, hanged by the neck until he's dead. >> snowden is a traitor. he deserves to come home. i believe he deserves to end his life at the end of a hangman's noose. >> he doesn't believe he should have a life behind bars. >> snowden should not be granted relief for what he's done to the nation. >> he would love to be back in this country. he's a patriotic american. he loves his homeland. >> it will take years if not decades for us to return to the position that we had prior to his disclosure. >> so

mr. snowden's actions or motivations. earlier this month the president announced some changes, but he didn't halt the controversial phone data collection program the agency uses to track terror threats abroad and in the u.s. we cannot prevent terrorist attacks without some capability to penetrate digital communications. >> the obama administration is charged seven whistle blowers under the act, more than all previous presidents combined. and last summer, a military judge sentenced former army private chelsea manning to 35 years in prison, for stealing and sharing some 750,000 class fied diplomatic cables and field reports with wickky leaks. the legal case surrounding edward snowden is considerably americaier. in fact, only months before the disclosures began, president obama signed into law the whistle blower protection enhancement act. a law preventing employer retaliation or other actions against an employee who reveals corruption, or malfeasance within a government agency. that law excludes intelligence agencies like t

mr. snowden deserves better than a life of permanent exile, fear and flight. he may have committed a crime to do so, but he has done his country a great service. it is time for the united states to offer mr. snowden a plea bargain or some form of clemency that would allow him to return home. the "times" goes on to say snowden should have the hope to lead a life of advocating for greater privacy and intelligence oversight. snowden has temporary asylum in russia, he's charged with espionage and felony theft of government property involving close to two million government documents, u.s. officials have urged him to return and face those charges. >>> >>> 14 people were rushed to the hospital wednesday an after apartment building in downtown minneapolis caught fire after an explosion. minneapolis firefighters did the best they could to control the fire. they had to fall back because the building became unsafe and battled the blaze from the outside. wind chill temperatures hit near minus 20 degrees. some residents on upper floors had to jump from windows. six in cri

mr. snowden is subject to the treatment of provisional asylum here in russia. he has a right to travel freely across the country. he has no special limitation. he can just buy a ticket and come here. >> reporter: there was no specific evidence offered by any of the lawmakers today that snowden cooperated with russia. now, this all comes amidst tense relations with the united states and russia, clashing with issues such as syria, gay rights and edward snowden. lester? >> kristen, thanks. >>> on the defensive about the timing of her accusations about governor chris christie's administration, a mayor said the funds after hurricane sandy were tied to her support of a project. we learn more from michael isikoff. >> chris christie woke up to new >> reporter: while huddling with big donors in florida, chris christie woke up this morning to do headlines, with claims about a democratic mayor of strong-arm tactics that cut her city off from funds to recover from hurricane sandy and democratic lawmakers are vowing to investigate. >> she's perhaps one of the first mayors t

better than a life of permanent exile fear and flight it is time for the united states to offer mr snowden a plea bargain or some form of clemency that would allow him to return home that's an editorial also said that in respect in retrospect mr snowden was clearly justified in believing that the only way to blow the whistle on this kind of intelligence gathering was to expose it to the public and let the resulting fear or do the work is superiors would not. a similar editorial published in the guardian the same newspaper the first publish node's lee expected june argued that mr snowden through journalists in the absence of meaningful reliable democratic oversight had given people enough knowledge about the nature of modern intelligence gathering to allow an informed debate. of the real story has always been the n.s.a.'s orwellian spying programs it's important to remember that the debate we're having right now a debate that's well on its way to becoming a supreme court case would be impossible without snowden so clemency is the least we can offer him snowden has forced the powers that be

mr. snowden. i don't have any particular evidence, but one of the things that i point to when i talk about this is that the disclosures that have been coming recently are very sophisticated in their content and sophisticated in their timing. almost too sophisticated for mr. snowden to be deciding on his own. seems to me he might be getting some help. >> schieffer: and what about the coming olympics, are you concerned about the lack of cooperation that the russians seem to be giving us? >> long history of cooperation between nations who are hosting an olympics and the united states government and united states intelligence community in particular. and we did not get that cooperation with the russians. so i share the chairman's concern about the safety of the olympics. >> schieffer: why do you think that is? just the russians being the russians or is there something else here? >> i think fundamentally they don't want to admit this they don't have complete control here that they might need some help.

mr. snowden has done a favor for many people including president obama who didn't know a lot of things goingis own nsa until snowden initiated the actions that led to the investigations that are currently going on. i think he should very carefully consider not just clemency but sending snowden a thank you note. >> ruth, to his point, where the president wasn't aware allegedly, reportedly that we were eavesdropping on foreign leaders. doesn't that speak to a program lacking in oversight and therefore he's done a public solid? >> well, absolutely it speaks to a program lacking in oversight. i think it is possible and i'm going to send love back at my friend and colleague clarence page -- >> thank you, ruth. >> but we're going to have a love fest here, but i think that you can hold two ideas in your head at once. that snowden did something that i think was really disreputable and dangerous to take this action on himself to decide what is fair and free and safe. and not dangerous to leak. and you can say that the nsa has been -- has done itself and the country a terrible disservice by not being

mr. snowden's actions or motivations. where does edward snowden, from your perspective, fit into this current debate and these proposed reforms the president put forward today? >> you know, i think it leads to whether or not you think the president is genuinely concerned or not. i don't think we would be here, and i think there would be absolutely no reform, had there not been the releases by snowden. it's a separate question, what to do with him and whether he broke the law, which i think he did, and how he should be punished. the thing is, we wouldn't have any of this information and we wouldn't have any discussion. but what i think the president misunderstands is, he thinks when there is a problem and there may be a potential for abusive problems, i'll get some lawyers together that all work for him, and then they'll review it and put more safeguards on it. the nsa cannot oversee themselves. the administration or executive branch can't oversee themselves. that's why we separate these powers. but we separated the police

mr. snowden. i don't think that mr. snowden deserves a death penalty or life in prison. do i think it's okay to leak secrets and give up national secrets and things that could endanger lives? i don't think that's okay, either. the courts are now saying that what he revealed was something that the government was doing was illegal. he if they served in a prison cell together we would become further enlightened over the country. >> you have taken heat for making that comparison. i want to clarify here, you're saying no clemency for edward snowden, but perhaps leniency? >> well, i think the only way he's coming home is if someone would offer him a fair trial with a reasonable sentence. we have had people all over the news, some of the same people defending james clapper lying to congress, off with his head, he should be hung from the nearest tree, i don't think that's appropriate. in the end, history is going to judge he revealed great abuses of our government and great abuses of our intelligence community. james clapper, in lying to congress, really, seriously destroyed the

mr. snowden left with. is a program that dates back to 2008 in which small devices, including on a thumb drive, that the nsa was having manufactured and planting, to emit a radio wave up to eight miles away, where the nsa could, through a relay station, pick up data from a computer that's completely walled off from the internet. and we have talked before on your show, wolf, about the operation against iran, the olympic games. we tried -- reported on a year-and-a-half ago. and that is the technology we believe was used, at least in part, to get the information into and out of the computers in iran that were attacked by the u.s. and israel as part of that operation. so it's very possible that mr. snowden could over time be victim of the same technology that his own documents revealed. but we don't know it. we simply don't know what the russians and the chinese have. >> well, very quickly, i know a lot of u.s. intelligence officials, they just assume that everything he has, everything he stole, everything he t

mr. snowden's action or his motivations. if any individual who objects to government policy can take it into their own hand to publicly disclose classified information, then we will not be able to keep our people safe or conduct foreign policy. moreover, the sensational way in which these disclosures have come out is often shed more heat than light. while revealing methods to our adversaries that could impact our operations and ways that we may not fully understand for years to come. >> former acting director of the cia don mclaughlin just told us that these leaks have been damaging in exposing american intelligence methods. what is your response to former director mclaughlin and the president? >> maybe it is true. maybe his judgment is right. he hasn't told us any specifics nor has anyone else. perhaps we shouldn't expect that because after all it is all secret, right? except that those exact same things were said about me, by the president, and vice president, a lot of other people. like mclaughlin, they were said about ch

mr. snowden made and the president even agrees with mr. snowden that mass surveillance does violate people's privacy. he said that in his speech. >> i have a yegz for you. let's just say that it did thwart a terrorist attack. might we be sitting here going thank goodness for that program. because it hasn't caught one -- >> in fairness to, you know, the opposing side, you know, the fact that it hasn't caught one, at least according to some of the people who looked at it is a fact. is against it. but, you know, the question remains, you know, how are we going to monitor the would-be terrorists in a world where terrorists use gmail, terrorists use text messages. this is not a fictional threat. this is an actual threat that we face and the nsa's response seems to me a reasonable one. >> let me remind you of something. we heard jake tapper say just a couple minutes ago reporting he was in an online forum today and he said returning to the united states, i think it is best resolution for the government, the public and myself, but it's unfortunate

hands of the same government president obama should tell his aides to begin finding a way to end mr snowden's vilification and give him an incentive to return home. new york times went on to bullet point several of the n.s.a. violations as revealed by snowden including the hacking of data links at google and yahoo the efforts to undermine in christian and prove that the director of national intelligence james clapper lied to congress last march when he said that the n.s.a. was not collecting data on americans. and now to iraq which is just coming off its deadliest year since two thousand and eight according to the united nations mission of baghdad seven thousand eight hundred eighteen civilians were killed in a second sectarian violence this year alone in iraq at an iraqi security forces deaths and the death toll rises to more than eighty eight hundred although the war in that country officially ended in two thousand and eleven the violence continues and peace is still hard to find iraq is that lasting legacy of u.s. intervention in the middle east which might explain the results of a new glo

mr. snowden? >> i worked in the bush administration for secretary powells and rice. had top level security chlorrance and snowden did as well. when you take that oath, you understand that it is people and american's lives and foreign assets are at risk when you release information. you can't know the consequences of what you do. and you have to prosecute snowden fully for what he's done because he put lives at risk. >> all of us might agree that snowden is no hero in terms of what he has done, but while he's no hero, he did commit a crime. he's done a great service to all of us by illuminating the trampling of every right of the americans in being spied on and that is clearly unconstitutional. >> great to have you here and terrific conversation with you. emily and ebonnie thank you for coming. >> thank you. >> (applause) >>> why is this man wearing nothing but a pink tu- tu in the middle of the new york times square. he is doing all of this for a good cause. you wonder what it is. you will meet him and hear his remarkab al-qaeda's efforts to concert pour in iraq. now

mr. snowden was a patriot. >> he's a trait. the disclosure of this information puts americans at risk. it shows our adversaries what our capabilities are. and it's a giant violation of the law. >> i don't think he meets the legal definition of being a traitor according to our constitution but he certainly has done a very, very bad thing. >> he has disclosed programs that make it easier for terrorists overseas and the first people who are going to feel that damage are our soldiers in afghanistan. >> the strength of leaking that, yes, that would be a prosecutable offense. and i think he should be prosecuted. >> he had an opportunity, if what he was was a whistle blower to pick up the phone and call the house intelligence committee, the senate intelligence committee, now he's done this enormous disservice to our country. and i -- i think answer is no clemency. >> our belief last always been that he should return to the united states and face -- and face justice. >> with me on set in our new york studio, karen greenburg director of the center of american security at fordham law school. kar

hands of the same government president obama should tell his aides to begin finding a way to end mr snowden's vilification and give him an incentive to return home. in york times went on to bullet point several of the n.s.a. violations as revealed by snowden including the hacking of data links that google and yahoo the efforts to undermine encryption and proof that the director of national intelligence james clapper lied to congress last march march when he said the n.s.a. was not collecting data on americans. moving on to first and fourth amendment rights need not apply on the united states borders just before new year's a federal judge in new york ruled that the government's controversial searches of individuals laptops cell phones and other devices at the border do. do not violate an individual's right to privacy and free speech a lawsuit was brought by the american civil liberties union in other organizations after a university student on a train from montreal to new york in two thousand and ten how does a laptop seized by customs and border protection officers for eleven days the a.c.l.u

mr. snowden? does he want to enter into those conversations? >> sure. always glad to entertain conversations, and we're glad that holder made that statement. it's a little disheartening that he seemed to take clemency and amnesty off the table which are two negotiating points. but again, none of us have been contacted yet about restarting negotiations. and also i think that no harm-no foul is not apt. i mean, there has been plenty of suffering on the part of edward snowden. he's been punished quite a bit already. and while we are glad to dialogue be an negotiate, he's not going to come back and face an espionage prosecution. >> what's the punishment he's endured? >>. >> he's endured having to basically give up his entire life and be rendered stateless by the united states government. revoking his passport while he was here in russia. he has been granted political asylum by four different countries because they all found that he had a valid fear of political persecution based on the very espionage act charges that he's facing in the u.s. >> on this progr