mr. spiers, based on what you heard today, your knowledge of government agencies and their cyber security issues, is this a management issue or a resource issue? >> it's more of a management issue, sir. >> and why do you say that? >> because of the nature of the way it has been run in a lot of agencies there are so many let's say inefficiencies that have been crept into the system that i don't believe we effectively spend the i.t. dollars we receive now, i believe that with a proper drive toward management, can you drive a lot of savings from the existing budgets. caveat that, when you're talking about modern -- new modernization programs sometimes with the right business case, it does make sense to invest in those. i assume -- based upon your response to senator coons i assume there's a senator inclination when these issues arise, the easy thing to do is to hire a contractor, we don't know -- within the agency we don't know this stuff, this isn't our primary mission let's get somebody in here who takes care of this, we've worked on this committee when chairman udall was its chairman we w

mr. spiers talked about oversight. that's certainly something we can do in regard to this committee. how will you be involved in that process? >> well, we're continuing our oversight of the modernization project. the flash audit alert was issued this week, and it was just an interim report so to speak we're going to continue our audit work throughout the length of this project. >> the administration's cap cyber goals in an effort to drive. that's not working. do you recommend any changes to the goals? >> i would first comment that i think -- i mean, i think having goals is certainly appropriate, but let's take one example. this notion we've all talked about this need for multifak toral authentication. to be able to protect the credentials of those that use these systems are legitimate. when you look at the cyber goal, and you look at the use of, for instance the hspd-12 piv card, and trying to get the 75% usage within the federal agencies within the goal. they only need one way in. and 75% just doesn't cut it in this world 234i more. we need to rethink, i think the objectives there.