mr. sutton, i have a few questions that i want to ask and i'm going to ask. i made an elusion to water geet -- gate and the inquiries related to the president and people around him. what did he know and when did he know it. that's what i want to pursue a little bit with you. a few weeks ago when you were here, you were asked by commissioner andrews, and we know that this fraudulent coordinated committee got a couple hundred thousand dollars in campaign. commissioner andrews asked you how much in total did supervisor ferrell spend in his own campaign with his committee and your answer was i'm sorry, i don't know that. >> about $260,000. >> $260,000 that's what he spent for his entire campaign. yet, at the same time during those last weeks of the campaign there is campaign activity going on for him in pacific heights to the tune of another $200,000 being spent out there. pacific heights is not a vast territory. wouldn't that raise some inference that supervisor ferrell would wonder where is this $200000 all of this stuff that's being spent on me to help me defe

mr. bravin and judge sutton in the fifth circuit actually made a case and this is a case i'll paraphrase that says marriage is basically a triparty agreement. you have first the couple number one couple number two and i'm specifically making it abstract couple one, couple two and the community. and he actually referred to before subsidies. and again, there is a financial subsidy to that arrangement. there's responsibilities from couple one couple two and also the community saying we are going to have responsibilities to the couple and then in turn the couple will have responsibilities to the community and for that we are going to subsidize it and that's my main objection to the ruling that the state of ohio until yesterday had made that decision that we were only going to subsidize certain types of relationships when we deemed them beneficial to the community. it wasn't anything about loneliness and subsidizing loneliness or subsidizing friendship. in fact we didn't even subsidize people who are maybe engaged to be married. they have love. there's no law overseeing those. anyway, i'd lik

mr. george: willie sutton, that's where the money is, and of course having the world's largest economy, as the commissioner suggested, this is -- it atraction -- attracts the bad guys. i'm not familiar with the study you cited in that china is the source of these problems. on a number of criminal investigation that is have been completed by us, a lot of them did emanate from former soviet republics. belarus and places of the like. it's again sir, just too many people, too much time on their hands. with the sophistication of their release to computers and networks and servers and the like. it is truly a challenge not just for the internal revenue service, as has been stated before both by the commissioner and members of this panel. this is a federal, state, local global problem. i don't see it ending any time soon, sir. just as soon as the i.r.s. increases its security posture, the bad guys will increase their efforts to overcome those. and they have a lot of time on their hands. senator carper: i say in closing, we spend a lot of time trying to focus on the symptoms of problems in all kind

mr. bravin judge sutton in the fifth circuit actually made a case and i will paraphrase marriage is basically a tri-party agreement. you have a couple number one couple number two, and i'm specifically making it abstract, couple one couple two and the immunity. he referred to it as subsidies. there is a financial arrangement, responsibilities from couple one, couple two, and the community saying we will have responsibility to the couple and the couple will have responsibilities to the community and for that we will subsidize it. that is my main objection to this ruling, the state of ohio until yesterday, had made the decision that we would only subsidize certain types of relationships when we deemed them beneficial to the community. it was not anything about loneliness, subsidizing loneliness and friendship. in fact, we need to subsidize people who, maybe, are engaged to be married. they have love and there is no law overseeing those. i would like you to speak to those -- to that and how the court circumvented the opportunity for me as an ohio and to actually say what relationships would be s