mr. thorson. >> okay. mr. thorson, in your testimony, you say that wamu failed because its management pursued a high risk business strategy that loosened underwriting too much. is it your your belief that high risk strategy could have been okay with strategies in place? >> i think by definition proper risk controls would say, yes, we can -- we can control that. so i guess to some degree, yes, you could say that. but the real life examples are, once you begin to institute those kind of policies and become much more lax -- and especially in underwriting which is really your safeguard. your final look before you do these packages, it's pretty hard to really understand what kind of system you'd put in place to control that. but i mean, in definition wise, yes, in the real world probably not. >> yeah. and also the amount is relative to the risky investments that you're procuring and selling. on page 6 of your testimony you said ots relied largely on wamu's accepted acceptances and it's boards of directors that probl

mr. thorson you say that wamu field because it pursued a high risk business strategy that will send an underwriting too much. is it your belief that high risk strategy could have been okay with proper control in place? >> i almost any system if you put -- by definition proper rest kunkel would say yes we can control that so i guess to some degree yes you could say that. but the real life examples are once you begin to institute those kind of policies and become much more lax on underwriting which is your safeguard, you're final look before you do these packages it's pretty hard to understand what kind of system you put in place to control fat but in definition, yes in the real world probably not. >> and also the amount as relative to the risk that you are procuring and selling. on page six of the testimony you said ots relied largely on wamu management to try progress and collecting examiner identified weaknesses and accepted assurances from wamu management and its board after victors the problems would be solved. do you mean to imply by this that ots had no system in place to find out if wamu was