binney hasn't been at the agency since 2001, mr. ticen't been at the agency since 2005, they don't know what's going on inside the agency. >> woodruff: another allegation that we heard from them, from mr. tice, is that back before he left the n.s.a. in the early 2000s, that there was spying going on news organizations, on supreme court justices, on presidential candidates, on senator barack obama, and on military leaders, the top generals in the army. >> mr. tice was terminated from indicated, having to do with the period before 2005, eight years ago. they're just coming out now. i wonder why. the farther he gets from the period when he could have known what he was talking about, the more fanciful the obligations have become. >> woodruff: brenner claims that oversight of information gathering has actually improved. >> we have turned intelligence into a regulated industry in a way that none of our allies, even in europe, have done. we have all three branches of government now involved in overseeing the activities of the n.s.a., the c.i.a.