mr. timberg, patch and pray. what is that? >> guest: right. [laughter] so that's a kind of, it's a derogatory term that came about, i think it first emerged in the mid '90s when you would say that, you know, a software developer, a microsoft or an oracle would release these bits of software that were, that weren't really solidding from a security point of view -- solid from a security point of view. they did what they claimed to do, they would print something on your printer, or they would create some imagery or some sound on your computer, but they had all of these holes in them that people could get into and eventually use that to take control of your computer. so the sort of historical moment here is the mid '90s. the worldwide web has been created, there's this amazing rise of uptake and connectivity all over the world, and, you know, there are companies that serve that emerging market which was huge and powerful and very lucrative companies got, you know, had amazing profits for many years, many decades. but it took outsiders to point out