mr. wainstein who has been very forthcoming. i want to commend former chairman mr. sensenbrenner. you mentioned the sensenbrenner patriot act of course, i mentioned the one from the of the rules committee that was a very mysterious activity in which nobody ever found out there were no fingerprints on the new belfast the sensenbrenner pager fact which i suppose mr. sensenbrenner wrote that night and got up there because nobody ever saw it in the judiciary committee but it is one of those mysteries in the legislative process that have not been fully examined and maybe we would get a judiciary committee chairman are maybe even a constitutional subcommittee chairman that will step up to the plate and find out how a several hundred page bill could be substituted for another in the middle of the night. the rules committee was meeting after midnight when this was acted upon. i own they digressed to show you that to there has been bipartisanship on the rules committee. there are very few important bills in which ever republican and every democrat votes in its favor and that is what happen

mr. wainstein why should and section 206 contained the requirement in a criminal version?>> the authorization to issue the order based on a description as opposed to the identity. that is a recognition of the reality what we're dealing with that with foreign spies and terrorists we often do not know their name. >> you don't have the same situation in a criminal context? >> less frequently a problem because sometimes we do have people that come in and outside of the context of foreign terrorism and espionage looking at drug trafficking sometimes there are people there are names we don't know but in the foreign intelligence context people who come our spies and go to great lengths to hide their identities we often will not know but no darn sure they are. >> you know, his appearance but not his name? >> we will have watched him and see him with a physical surveillance see he has contacts better known operatives. keep in mind we can only get the fisa court order if we show specific sisyphus day specificity to satisfy the court. >> why day you disagree? >> i don't think there's

mr. wainstein was named security advisor in the portfolio covering coordination of the counterterrorism homeland security infrastructure protection and disaster response and recovery efforts. he has a b.a. from the denver city of virginia and from the university of california berkeley. mike german is a policy council for the civil liberties union washington legislative office prior to joining the aclu he served 16 years as a special agent with fbi we specialize in domestic terrorism and covert operations. he served as an adjunct professor for law enforcement in terrorism at the national defense university and as a senior fellow. he has a b.a. in philosophy from wake forest university and jd from northwestern university law school. i'm pleased to welcome all of you. you're written statements will be part of the record and it's in their entirety i would ask you to summarize your testimony to five minutes or less to help you stay within the time there's a tiny light at the table when one minute remains the light will switch from green to yellow and then when the five minutes are up. before we begin