mr. waldman, illegal immigrants cannot vote. >> they cannot vote. there's no reason to think they want to stride into a government office and announce who they are and where they live. and the -- this is a phenomenon of scare stories, and what's interesting is this, what we're hearing from donald trump right now, is kind of a cartoon version of a lot of the charges that a lot of politicians have been making over the years about oh, there must be voter fraud? we can't actually point to it. but it's invisible but it must be out there. it's understandable that people hear this noise over and over again. they think it might be true, it's really important that we listen to the conservative republican secretary of state of ohio, for example, who said let's be very clear the elections have integrity, they're not rigged, people should, i think, stand up to this phony idea of it being rigged by voting. >> obviously fact checking which is what we're trying to do with both of you, if there is a difference between voter fraud and voter registration, fraud, beca