mr. waller -- excuse me, mr. mckendrick, i apologize.ince this report came out and prior to this hearing, have any senior leaders at va reached out to you regarding the statements you made that were included in the report? >> no senior leaders have talked to me about the statements that were made. it's my understanding that it's under investigation. >> did any va officials instruct you as to what to say during this hearing? >> no, they did not, chairman. >> the ig concluded in its report that you were essential forced or coerced to move to the los angeles ro from the philadelphia ro. is this correct? >> i was not forced or coerced, sir. i was direct reassigned. >> what does direct reassigned mean? >> direct reassignment means that the agency has determined in the best interest of the agency that arguably i was the right person at the right time to take that assignment. it went through a vetting process, chairman. >> and had you not taken that assignment, what would have occurred? >> i don't know, chairman. >> miss reubens stated in her .

mr. waller. excuse me mr. mckendrick, apologize. since this report came out prior to this hearing have any senior leaders that be a rich i.t. regarding the statements you made that were included in the report? >> no senior leaders have talked to me about the statements that were made. it's my understanding that is under investigation. >> at n.a.b. officials instruct you as to what to say during this hearing? >> no they did not mr. chairman. >> the ig concluded in its report that you were essentially forced or course to move to the los angeles ro from the philadelphia ro. is this correct? >> i was not forced or coerced. i was directly assigned. >> what does directly assigned main? >> directory assignment means the agency has determined in the best interest of the agency that i was the right person at the right time to take the assignment. we went through a vetting process mr. chairman. >> had he not taken that assignment what would have occurred? >> i don't know chairman. >> ms. rubin stated in her interview with the ig that you cont

mr. waller.and my question is, when these decisions are made, who's looking at the second and third degree effects that it's happening on the work force and that you moved them? these questions start to be ask. i think mr. mckendrick led into this and the question about the press. i can tell you the press has a critical responsibility in our democracy, as you all know. but i can tell you, trying to pull information out of you, all's they have to do is foia, foia, foia. they can't get a straight answer. they're asking the veterans questions, too. you're right, misinformation can get out there. when there is a vacuum misinformation will fill it. but i would suggest to you don't expect the va in this environment to get the benefit of the doubt on anything. that's just simply the reality. what i'm suggesting to all of you is what can we do to have these senior leaders who know what's going on who have the trust of the vsos, trust of the veterans, working with local elected officials, can't you give t

mr. waller discussed his potential transfer to philadelphia. those discussions are

mr. waller -- ms. graves and mr. waller discussed his potential transfer to philadelphia. ose discussions are eventually shelfed because mr. healthcare ken rick is transferred -- mckenrick is transferred from philadelphia ro director's job to become the los angeles ro director. then ms. rubens transfers from v.a. headquarters here in d.c. to fill now-vacant philly ro job and receives about $274,000 in relocation assistance. mr. waller is subsequently transferred from the st. paul ro director job to become the baltimore ro director job. ms. graves then transfers from her position as the eastern area director in philadelphia to fill the now-vacant st. paul ro director job and receives about $129,000 in relocation assistance. finally, both ms. rubens and ms. graves retained their ses-level salaries despite assuming lower responsibility jobs. it seems to me that ms. rubens and ms. graves' use of the relocation expense program is an expensive and confusing waste of taxpayer money given that they both volunteered to take these positions. as my colleague, mr. kaufman, pointed out

mr. waller. excuse me, mr. mckendrick. apologize. .. >> >> it is an interesting position you have the opportunity to work with the challenging community. after doing your research did you decide to take that position? >> i find it is very challenging and my position id is that would have to be direct reassigned and the agency would tell me that i would be the best candidate to go. i was committed to the mission of the v.a. i have struggled with the director reassignment and other agents of the past a senior leader basically said we will directly assign you to another position in another city. ice said water the options and they said non is an alternative san they said you were fired. that did not happen here so i reached out to to find as much information as i could. so frankly there were times when i had to take family into consideration in their went through the process that if i was going to go would have to be director reassigned nobody else would take this position there were already two panels have not produced a suc

mr. waller and mr.mckenrick you've done a tremendous job for the va and the system but have any of you been interviewed or questioned by federal agents on this ig report? i consider them to be an agent if that's what you're asking me regarding this report be interviewed me twice on the record i believe one other time we had extensive dialogue. >> mr. pummill, let's go back to the baltimore application process k. i think we were told there were 131 applicants have applied to the job. or they're any of them interviewed or questioned them is there any ability to take this job? >> i don't know, congressman. >> were you aware that mr. rubin had family in philadelphia? do you think that influenced her decision to move you from los angeles to be closer to her family backs to become? >> i do not believe that it is her decision to move me to los angeles was the chief of staff. >> and did you read the report? you understand the implication of the possible misuse of her position to move into that position and poss

mr. waller. i think it would be in the va's best interesting with transparency and veterans trust. this is a senior executive giving the authority to talk to people and reassure them. i appreciate that offer and i yield back. >> thank you very much. >> thank you for calling this hearing, mr. chairman, and trying to get to the bottom of some of these questions. i appreciate the line of questions. i want to follow up, i believe mr. pummill made a statement to the extent -- i think you said it was virtually impossible to fire a gs employee? could you clarify and explain that a little more from your experience? >> in my experience -- it's not very much. i've been with the va for five years. the civil servants -- i believe this is federal government wide -- have incredible protections and safeguards so the process of taking care of a problem employee takes an incredible amount of documentation and oversight and time and energy and taxpayer dollars and normally ends with somebody outside of our organiz

mr. waller or mr. mckendrick, you would have not come had somebody said "don't come." i think you would have been here. and we had to subpoena you in order to get you to come here. mr. pummill, you obviously were subpoenaed because miss hickey left her position, and i suspect that we may invite her to appear before us at a later date. but with that, if there are no further questions, we are now in recess. >>> coming up tonight remarks from president obama on the keystone xl pipeline and his administration's decision to reject the request from a canadian company to build it. he spoke earlier today at the white house and we'll show you a portion of those comments now. >> several years ago the state department began a review process for the proposed construction of a pipeline that would carry canadian crude oil through our heartland to ports in the gulf of mexico and out into the world market. this morning secretary kerry informed me that after extensive public outreach and consultation with other cabinet agencies, the state department has decided that the keystone xl pip