mr. wegner, the california -- california prohibits balanced billing for emergency services, your plans regulated by the department of managed health care. so i just have a few questions to explore this further pick let's say a patient has a private insurance plan, and it's a plan that the state of california has prohibited from balanced billing practices, i guess that would be an hmo plan. >> or seat -- certain p.p.o. plans that are governed. >> in those situations, you don't have a negotiated rate with the insurer? >> correct. >> and you build them. and the insurance company pays a part of the bill, but not all of it. >> correct. >> but in these cases, you don't bill the patient, there is no balance billing because it is prohibited by state law. >> the patient would pay a co-pay or a share of cost under the plan, potentially, the correct, we are not balance billing the insurance. >> in these cases, i think we could assume that we don't destroy the credit, or don't bankrupt the patient as some of these examples of balance billing could do for the other patients. and we don't cause undue stress a

reppo wegner -- >> thank you to the witnesses for their time and their service. mr. abrams, in keeping with the questioning. i can say in the wake of maduro's attempt to expel u.s. diplomats, the u.s. is negotiating with the venezuelan establish astry to influence. can you give an update? mr. abrams: on the security measures, i would not want to go into that in an open hearing. the security is on our minds every day. an intersection is used in a case where there is a government, and we do not recognize that government. but in venezuela, there is a government we do recognize. repp >> is there a u.s. office? i'm amazed at the breadth of the international coalition calling for change. principles of sovereignty and noninterference have in the past limited some latin american countries from speaking out against regional abuses, but latin america is truly stepping up to the plate and taking a strong stance against their neighbor. mr. abrams, what was the tipping point for latin american states that have called for maduro to step down and how is the u.s. working to unify th