mr. welch: that is exactly right. mr. garamendi: we can borrow money for 2% for 10 years, maybe 20 years. why don't we borrow at 2%, loan -- refinance that debt and pay 2% rather than 6%, 7% or 8%. mr. welch: you are so right. interest rates have gone down and folks have been given breathing room by reducing their interest rates from 7% to 3.50%. that is real money. why not allow students and parents who have signed on student loans that same opportunity and they'll pay the loans back. mr. garamendi: refinance your home and refinance your student debt. it's a bookkeeping issue at the federal level. they are paying a high interest rate to the u.s. government and they're held back. this is a major part of the middle class. mr. welch, thank you so much for joining us. we will talk about a few other things that go into this -- that previous plaquered had the make it in america as one of the principal ways of growing american jobs and it really is true. i want to give you just two examples of how make it in america and buy ame

. >> i agree, i don't have the same perspective that mr. welchas obviously over decades, but i would argue we don't want mass certainty because that's when you're paying 26 times for stocks and probably all the upside is gone. that's not a negative. i want to talk about mid-caps. we spent a lot of time focused qqq. mid caps look like could happen today, they will be the first major average to break a new high since the onset of the correction this month. are there large groups of stocks that are doing their thing regardless of the global macro story that are much more america focused in the russell 2,000, in the mid-cap 400 and how how isolate those names given how much dispersion we have these days and we're not all moving in lockstep? >> josh, that's great point. i mean -- >> thank you. >> let's even go back to the s&p 500 or not the s&p 500, the nyse all in ad line makes a new high yesterday. >> right. >> the energy, the materials, areas that you are concerned about because of commodity prices and those that service them are taking a hit. ther

welch, the editor in chief of "reason" magazine. and joining us from the conference in maryland political journalist leann caldwell, who had a chance to sit down with arthur brooks. how did mr. brooks find himself the poverty guru of the right? >> mr. brooks is someone who actually has the power and the influence to convince republicans to talk about this issue. not only is he passionate about it and energetic, he's really convincing. but also he's head of one of the most influential conservative think tanks in washington, d.c. the american enterprise institute. in the five years he's been there, he's doubled their fundraising from $20 million to $40 million based mostly on his belief that poverty is an issue that the republicans need to take up. in addition, he has the ear of nearly every single potential republican presidential candidate and they are listening to him. >> so here's part of what i want to know then. when i listen to mr. brooks, it sounds like he's interest. ed in this question as a fundamental question of how the democracy and our economy works. but i wonder if the candidates with whom he is in conversation are really much more interested here in simply apo

mr. chairman as a point of personal privilege come i would like to finish this. >> there is some evidence that welch suspected mccarthy would do this and impact was prepared to do this and wasn't quite as shocked as he appeared on television at the time. but the television audience was shocked and mccarthy's personal standing really are wrote it as result of all of this. interestingly enough hollywood hired robert welch and if you see him he's a very cagey judge. he had a certain theatrical side along the way. but he really did show maccarthy what he was and that undermines mccarthy standing among the other senators may begin investigation and in december of 1954 two months after the hearings the conduct unbecoming of a senator. all of the democrats except for john kennedy and about half of the republicans including prescott bush who was father and grandfather to president wound up voting to venture senator mccarthy. senator mccarthy was never able to regain his national standing after that. he went into a tailspin and died at the age of 48 a few years later. when way cohen stepped down as chancello