mr. wenger and then mr. wicker on portability. is portability something that's absolutely necessary in order to have an adequate guest worker program in this country? commissioner? >> congressman, did you say portability? >> portability, yes. in other words to go from employer to employer once they're over here or to stay with one employer. >> absolutely. absolutely. >> portability is necessary. >> absolutely. >> mr. wenger? >> absolutely. you have to have portability or it doesn't work. >> mr. wicker? >> dga supports structured portability so workers can move from one certified farmer to another. >> and mr. goldstein i know you commented on this but i don't know if you have any comment with regard to portability. >> maybe portability plus. [ laughter ] >> let me ask you then something else. with regard to chairman smith's bill. he talks about caps in his, and we can't get from the labor department what the adequate er we just can't. we don't have statistics on that for obvious reasons. would it be something that maybe we should l

mr. wenger? >> yes, no. we don't -- the interesting thing is if you're worried about workers being taken advantage of, give them a document so they can travel and vote with their legs if they want to go, if they think they haven't been dealt with correctly. you don't need to be a citizen. you need a legal work document that empowers you and in california, we have a minimum wage. we pay overtime for agricultural work. and if you're really concerned about the plight of those who are living in the shadows and they're undocumented, give them a legal document. it was interest last summer, as we were going over to my son's graduation at cal poly, and we came by a peach tree, and every single one at lunch break had their phones out and they were texting and calling on the phone and talking to people. the people we have working in the fields today aren't somebody that's just stuck back in the shadows. given a legal documentation so they can come out of the shadows as far as being a workforce. there should be no reas

mr. wenger. mr. wicker. >> thank you. good morning. i'm lee wicker. deputy director of the growers association. thank you for holding the hearing. this is the largest state's program user, it has over 700 farmer members. i'm proud of the farmer workers of the program because they refused to surrender. instead, the farmers and workers of the program have committed themselves to compliance. with the determination of the american farmer, all agriculture can comply, compete, survive and thrive if the federal government would institute common sense labor policy reforms. americans are blessed to enjoy a safe and affordable food supply. so fortunate, many americans never give a second thought to the food they consume and where it comes from or what life could be like if the food security was lost. we must never take farmers, farm workers or food supply for granted. in order to continue to deliver fresh food to the consumer, farmers need a rational and workable guest worker program to provide a legal work force. a program that works is critical if our nation

mr. wenger. mr. wicker. >> thank you. good morning. i'm lee wicker. deputy director of knock knock growers' association. thank you for holding the hearing on the critical issue of labor intensive agricultural. this is the largest state's 2a program user, nca has over 700 farmer workers that will employ thousands of u.s. workers in 2012. i'm proud of the farmer workers of ncga because they refused to surrender to the conventional wisdom that it's impossible to dry in with our nation's labor, immigration and work and protection laws. instead, the farmers and workers of ncga committed themselves to compliance. with the dogged determination of the american farmer, all labor intensive agricultural can comply, compete, survive and thrive if the federal government would institute common sense agricultural labor policy reforms. americans are blessed to enjoy a safe, abundant and affordable food supply, produced on our nation's farms. so fortunate, many americans never give a second thought to the food they consume and where it comes from or what life could be

mr. paul wenger. he is currently serving his second term as president of the california farm bureau federation. in addition to serving as a member of the federation board, he chaired the water advisory committee. in 2011 he was elected to farm bureau board of directors. he's a third generation farmer and earned his bachelor's degree from cal poly san luis obispo. the next witness worked for north carolina employment security position as a technical supervisor for farm employment programs and stayedwide administrator for the h-2a program. mr. wicker has been growing tobacco with his family in lee county, north carolina, since 1978. graduated from the university of north carolina at chapel hill. our fourth witness is mr. bruce goldstein. mr. goldstein is president of farm worker justice in washington, d.c. he has substantial experience regarding h-2a temporary foreign agricultural worker program. prior to this, he worked as a labor and civil rights lawyer in southern illinois. he became a staff employee

mr. wenger, housing, schooling? >> currently, a lot of growers will provide housing, they see that as an attractant to get workers. it is not required. schooling, if they have children, they go to the public schools. >> it's open to them? >> yes. >> mr. wicker of north carolina? >> i can only speak to our h-2a and the families won't travel with them. the state department doesn't offer them visas. >> what about workers for mr. wicker? >> schooling is available -- >> no, american workers working in your business. >> i mean, sometimes there's housing with it. but most -- >> american worker, u.s. people, working in -- i'm asking you do they work in your business? are they in the fields picking product? >> we have some that went through the legalization process in '86. >> yes, ma'am, we have u.s. workers working on the farm. supervisors -- >> native u.s. -- >> yes.

mr. wenger? >> yeah, i think any time you set wages at a certain level and if you don't have caps and you let people come in and meet that for what they're doing, their responsibility level, they're going to find what that wage should be. and as mr. black has said, there's going to be certain things that have a higher wage rate. maybe it's harder, but others you don't have the same responsibility. so let the market determine. here we are, agriculture, i can't think of a society more free market driven and let's let our wages be more free market driven. >> how do you feel? >> wee ear advocate ag super minimum wage tied to the state minimum wage. we're looking at the base hourly wage rate that is predictable. i would agree with the other gentlemen, the discretion of the grower, piece rate systems, responsibility, skill sets, you'll pay more than that base salary wage rate. but it is so expensive to farm and what my members tell me consistently is this. all i know is that over the last 20 years our

mr. paul wenger. he is serving his second term of the california farm bureau federation. he chaired the advisory committee. in 2011, he was appointed to the board. he earned his degree from cal poly. we have lee wicker. he is from the north carolina growers association. the largest program user in the nation. prior to this, he worked for the north carolina security commission. the technical supervisor for the farm programs and state administrator. mr. wicker has been growing tobacco with his family in lee county since 1978. graduated from the university of north carolina at chapel hill. our fourth witness is mr. goldstein. he is president of farm worker justice. he has experience regarding the temporary worker program. prior to this, he worked as a labor and civil rights lawyer in southern illinois. he received his bachelor's degree from cornell university. gentlemen, thank you very much for your testimony. we are looking forward to it. if you would proceed in the order in which i introduced you and attempt to keep your remarks to five minutes. your full comments will be