mr. whipple, chris whipple. is that right?ave you ever heard of this book, i found it in my private library here. "shadow presidents" guest: i know it very well. caller: it's similar to yours. it came out in 1979. guest: that's right. it's a very good early study of some of the presidents closest advisors. it came out well before so much of our recent history. of course it came out before ronald reagan picked james baker has his white house chief of staff. he really set the bar i think for chiefs of staff. it's a very good early book about the subject. host: anything else? caller: he lumped all the early presidents together this michael medved. it was the modern day making of the presidential cabinet or something like that. he said when george washington was president, he had a treasury war and attorney general. that was it. they kept adding to it later. guest: government has got. much more complicated that it's fascinating to me as you point out that the early presidents didn't have so called chief of staff. they didn't have

mr. whipple, this is a great book and i am buying it tuesday morning. host: mr. whipple? guest: that's a very good point. it used to be the case back in , there was a's study by the executive branch in which it was recommended advisors have a passion for anonymity. that's not really possible anymore. the white house chief does occasionally have to go on the sunday talk shows and advance the president's agenda. i would agree that some chiefs have gotten into trouble by being too visible and seen too often. frankly, that grandstanding performance in the press briefing about the goldstar widow was an example. he hasn't done that lately. at the end of the day, he needs to be able to tell donald trump hard truths. he doesn't have to be invisible. he has to be a truth teller. host: in chapter eight, you write about the decider. andrew carr had a very challenging experience as chief of staff. how come? guest: i think it's a fascinating case when you think sont george bush 41 and his george bush 43. it's fascinating to me because i think george w. bush did not a powerful white ho

mr. whipple. start off with the term gatekeepers. put it into context as we talk about white house chiefs of staff, both present and form.