mr. williamson said. mr. williamson said there's not that much -- doesn't seem to be that much follow-up on this your health autopsy program we're learning anything for it. can you remind me what you said in your testimony? mr. williamson? you're contradicting what dr. kudler said. >> we were talking about oversight. very little oversight of that program at the local or the national level to see whether it was accurate and complete. >> right now dr. cutler you said you're doing oversight. and mr. williamson said the gao said you're not. so what exactly is going on? >> the difference is the two years that have passed since this report was written. not questioning the report at all. in fact, i find the report helpful as a real spur to do more. but at this point we are making a difference in this and we've developed -- >> will you show me the results of the oversight you've done in the last two years? can you get that to me, you know, within a reasonable period of time? like a month? >> that's not quite the way i

mr. randall williamson director of gao's health care team and mr. christopher labonte united states army veteran. i asked the witnesses to please stand and raise your right hand. do you solemnly swear under penalty of perjurey that the testimony you are about to provide is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> i do. >> mr. murray you are now recognized for five minutes. >> good afternoon, chairman kaufman, ranking member custer and members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity to discuss the department of veterans affairs care to veterans by contracting with community providers. mr. chairman, the subject of this hearing involves some complex territory related to procurement process, legal interpretations and the processing of hundreds of hows of purchased care transabs per year. i know we will be discussing these areas in detail, and that the committee's oversight is important. we will always depend on a mix of in house and community care with care in the community continuing to grow to ensure veterans get the care they

mr. williamson. i yield back mr. chair. >> thank you miss rice. mr. lambborn. >> thank you mr. chairman. and i appreciate your leadership in pursuing yet another scandal, basically. here it is june 1st. it's another month and we've got another scandal. it seems like the whole year has been like this. i for one am getting sick and tired of it. mr. williamson, i'd like to ask you for some background in this whole issue. whether we call the contract illegal or improper or noncompliant, what can go wrong when the va doesn't follow the proper procedures as regards to these contracts? mr. williamson. >> are you talking to me? >> yeah. >> oh okay. i thought you were -- >> so from a gao perspective. >> you know, i'm not a lawyer or a -- expert either. and i'm -- in listening to what i've heard today from the va witnesses, i'm a bit confused because on one hand you know, they say there's no impetus and there's no reluctance to go to a fire-based process for non-va care providers. i think there obviously is. otherwise, mr. fry would not have had the difficulty he's had. i think i would w

mr. williamson? >> we were talking about oversight oversight, very little oversight, to see if the information is accurate and complete. >> you said you are doing oversight. mr. williamson said you are not. what is going on? >> the difference is the two years passed since the report was written. i am not questions the report and find it helpful. but we are making a difference in this. >> can you show me the report? can you get that to me within a reasonable period of time? >> to respond to recommendations on oversight, i don't think the va completed them. it isn't a two or three lag. there has been changes made. there is a box checked on the behavioral autopsy report that oversight has been done. >> that is all there is? >> that is one of the things. they are revising guidelines and making progress. but it hasn't been completed to my understanding. >> i am not give you another chance but dr. clancy you said something in your testimony that was important to me and that is this seems simple but the ide

mr. randall williamson, a director of gao's health care team and mr.ristopher labonte, united states army veteran. i ask the witnesses to please stand and raise your right hand. do you solemnly swear under penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to provide is the truth the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? [ all reply ] thank you. you may be seated. mr. murray, you are now recognized for five minutes. >> good afternoon, chairman coffman, ranking member kuster, and members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity to discuss the department of veterans affairs' care of veterans by contracting with community providers. mr. chairman, the subject of this hearing involves some complex territory related to procurement process, legal interpretations, and the processing of hundreds of thousands of purchase care transactions per year. i know we will be discussing these areas in detail and that the committee's oversight is important. they will always depend on a mix of in-house and community care with care in the community continuing to gr

mr. williamson. i've seen this before. gao puts out 22 recommendations. what exactly is the weight of a gao recommendation? exactly what does that do? >> where you are because the congress is -- we report to the congress and the congress provided the leverage we need and its forums like this that we have that bring those things to light. >> exactly. again, mr. murray, i can go down here and ask some of these. i don't think it was necessarily a rhetorical question. i do think you're the wrong person to answer this. this is a much broader issue. this is the reform issue. this goes back to the va being all things for all people and not antagonize my chairman but this is the va trying to build hospitals, this is the va trying to do everything for everybody and i've been saying we need to have that discussion to figure out how do we best leverage both the private sect jobs the public sector, our promises to veterans and get quality care and do it in the most cost effective manner. we're here i would argue dealing with a very important issue. it's very granular

mr. williamson said you are not. what is exactly going on? >> the differences the two years that passed i'm not questioning the report at all. i find the report helpful as a spur to do more. at this point we're making a difference. >> show me the results of the oversight done in the last two years. did you get back to me in a reasonable period of time, like a month? >> that is not quite the way it is. there is still to respond recommendations on oversight. i don't think va has completed yet. it is not a two or three-year lag at all. there have been changes made. there is now a box checked on the behavioral autopsy report that indicates oversight has been done. that is one of the things. they are revising guidelines are making progress. but it's not been completed to our understanding. >> i'm not going to give you another chance sorry. dr. clancy you said something in your testimony that was very important to me and that is this seems so simple, but the fact is people who have an idea they want to hurt themselves have to hang up and dial anoth

mr. williamson. mr. lamont he first of all thank you so much for your service to the nine states army and join a recognized for five minutes. >> thank you for giving up to speak to this committee today. i am christopher labonte. my specific case there've been numerous issues i've had to face. i provided a written statement which explains in detail the events and issues that i was coerced into highly invasive surgery which was performed by a student with no qualifications or educational background to even be present in the room, let alone residency program. i have submitted evidence to prove the statement in my written statement to the atlanta va medical center has also been negligent in the health care. they have been complicit in allowing unqualified personal to gain entry into the va medical center and provide some of the worst health care i've ever experienced. i also said that an index of medical evidence along with my written statement with imaging proving the willful negligence from not only the va

mr. williamson you are not recognized for five minutes. >> good morning, mr. chairman, and ranking member kuster. i am pleased to be here today to discuss our november 2014 report on vha's efforts to monitor veterans with major depressive disorder from refer to as mdd who were prescribed want a more antidepressant. mdd is a major risk factor for suicide among veterans. it is particularly debilitating mental illness often associated with severe depression and reduced quality of life. also i will discuss certain aspects of vha suicide prevention program. specifically i will discuss the incidence of mdd among veterans treated by va, the extent that va clinicians prescribe antidepressants to veterans with mdd, and monitor antidepressant work, and data collecting and reporting on federal suicide to inform vha suicide attention after. vha data show about 10% of the veterans receiving vha health care were diagnosed with mdd come and 94% of those veterans with mdd were prescribed want a more antidepressants. however, the estimate of veterans with mdd may be low becaus

mr. williamson? >> directed at oversight? >> yes, sir. >> there is a lot of reasons why that doesn't happen. i think a lot of times the va doesn't have the data that is real, accurate and complete to do that kind of thing. i don't think there is willful vote motives. there is not that accountability that a supervisor is holding his or her employee accountable. >> that seems basic to doing your job to me. the hold someone accountable for their job. that is not rocket science. you are not doing your job. what happens when you don't do your job? do you lose your job? what happens? >> i am not sure i am the right one to ask that but you know in my perfect world, i would think you would. we are held accountability for the quality of work we do and we get feedback and hopefully corrective action after that. that is business 101. >> so dr. roe, i want to say to you and my colleagues, we share your frustration and i want to absolute my colleagues who are working with others. yes, people do don't do their jobs should be held accountab

mr. williamson that we have to balance this need for access and provide the right structure that represents the interests of the taxpayer. so it's balancing what's good for veterans and what's good for taxpayers. the answer to the question is how we look at that and how we balance that i own that for the department. i'll work to put that together. i would love to meet with the committee or staff as we do this to get entrepreneur put. i have to find a way that allows to us balance this to meet needs of the veteran, to manage their access while at the same time representing the interest of the taxpayer and recognizing the federal acquisition regulations and all the appropriate laws. i own that for the department. >> well thank you for that offer. >> i would like to thank the witnesses. you're now excused. let me just say, it really doesn't matter how the system has changed. because if you're not going to follow whatever system is there because you don't have the discipline, you don't have the leadership, it really just doesn't matter. at the end of the day there has to be a rule of law. and t

mr. randall williamson, director of jao's health care team, and dr. jacqueline -- let's see, maffucci. iraq and afghanistan veterans of america dr. clancy you are now recognized for five minutes. >> good morning chairman kaufmann ranking member cuss ter, members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to discuss the overuse of medication and the provision of mental health care to veterans particularly those at risk of suicide. one of our most important priorities at v.a. is to keep our patients free from harm at all times. i'm deeply saddened by the tragic outcome involving a veteran, so to families here today, or watching this hearing who've lost a loved one, i want to express my sorrow and regret for your loss. i appreciate your sharing your experiences with us, and we will honor your loved ones by learning from those experiences, and improving care for veterans in the future. we acknowledge up front that we have more work to do to reduce opioid use meet the increasing demands for mental health care and prevent suicides and we've taken significant actions to improve these area

williamson was there, and she joined us a short time ago. what else did the prosecutor have to say? lucy: there was lots of detail about mr.ucas -- lubitz's illnesses, but the most striking thing is what you are saying in the introduction. it's the gap between what his doctors knew and what his employers knew and the reasons why that mismatch of communication might have a card. the chief investigator here and cons -- in cannes said some of his doctors did think he shouldn't stand trial. there's no going to be an investigation looking at whether there are grounds for manslaughter charges to be brought against either of the companies involved or individuals. laura: thank you very much for joining us. in other news from around the world, a united nations -- united nations draft report says workers generally barter goods -- [indiscernible] hundreds of women were motivated by hunger and poverty to sell affects to peace giving troops. in exchange, the women would receive cash jewelry. rupert murdoch is reportedly ready to stand down as chief executive of 21st century fox. the 84-year-old will remain as executive chairman of the