mr. zindler and mr. lucier, how do you see these business models evolving for utilities over next several years? and how do we make sure consumers feel more empowered to get kind of efficiency they want out of their energy prices? >> well the utility business model, thank you, senator cantwell, for that very important question. the utility business model has really been evolving rapidly ever since thomas edison's pearl street station in 1882. the initial concept that served us well into the 1970s, economies of scale. lower consumer prices we needed bigger and bigger operations. that broke down a lot of reasons in the 19'70s and '70s, '80s, and '90s we heard about distributed generation in big scale. back then it was focused on distributed generation of natural gas and raised ish you of unbundling. cost based regulation is helpful for providing infrastructure but we're moving into a model now where scarcity based pricing what applies to the wholesale power markets and that is really the fundamental issue

mr. zindler and mr. lucier. how do you see these business models evolving for utilities over the next several years, and how do we make sure that consumers feel even more empowered to get the kind of efficiency that they want out of their energy prices? >> well, the utility business -- thank you, senator cantwell, for that very important question. the utility business model has really been evolving rapidly ever since thomas edison in 1882. the initial concept that served us well into the 1970s was the idea of economies of scale, to get low consumer prices we needed bigger and bigger operations. that broke down for a lot of reasons in the 1970s and it's actually the '70s, the '80s and '90s when we heard about distributed generation on a big scale. then the focus was on distributed generation in terms of natural gas. it still raised the issue of unbundling. i think that the model of cost-based regulation has been very helpful for providing infrastructure but we're moving into a model now where scarcity based prici

mr. zindler, welcome. >> good morning and thank you -- got it. good morning and thank you for this opportunity today. this is my first appearance before this panel under chairman murkowski's new leadership, so thank you. i appreciate the opportunity to contribute. i'm here today and i will as analyst with bloomberg news energy finance, energy market research division for financial information provider of bloomberg. our group provides investors and others with data and insight on what we call new energy technology. these include renewables such as wind and solar, electric vehicles, energy efficiency technologies, power storage such as batteries and natural gas among others. i would, my remarks represent my views alone, not deliver. they do not represent specific district specific investment advice. i'd like to start by saying these are without doubt auspicious and exciting times for new energy technologies, both globally and in the u.s. thanks to accomplish of economics and policy actions. i would argue a fundamental rethink is now well underway a