mr. donovan and i are in full agreement. >> oh, are we? >> we are. we're in total agreement. we just like to disagree. [laughter] the line in the dust. >> exactly, line in the dust. and it sounds more dramatic. yes, i found, i think i mentioned earlier that if you dig deep enough, i think you can find fresh material on almost anything. especially as far back as american history goes, a couple hundred years or so. and i did find four or five new pieces of evidence on the line in the sand. now, these aren't -- this evidence isn't a photograph of the line in the sand because photography didn't exist until 1839 and wasn't really widespread in the southwest before the 1840s which is why we have no photographs of the men who died in the alamo. but i did find a few references i think support one with side or the other. but surely you don't think these people rather than buying the book and finding out for themselves would want me to say now how i feel -- >> no, no, certainly wouldn't. [laughter] the line is so central, though, to the alamo story because it makes these men to die for