mr. miller. neither fulfilled their obligations. a little more than a week ago lois lerner was in front of our oversight subcommittee. she serves as the director of the exempt organization division and she has been directly involved in this matter, yet she failed to disclose what she knew to this committee. choosing to do so in an aba conference two days later. this is wholly unacceptable and one of the reasons that we believe, and as i stated several days ago, miss le are. ner should be relieved of her duties. chairman camp and i put together this hearing on a bipartisan basis to get the facts. we must seek the truth, not political gain. and i just i just want to add in that regard. mr. p said listening to the nightly news, this appears just to be the latest example of a culture of cover-ups and political intimidation in this administration. it seems like the truth is hidden from the american people just long enough to make it through an election. i totally, totally, disagree. if this hearing be

mr. miller, i yield back my time. >> mr.irman, earlier you reference to an article and for the purpose of this hearing to insert an article from bloomberg news that appeared on may 14th indicating their democratic leaning organizations, a focus of the irs. >> without objection. >> when i woke up this morning as they do every morning i went to my phone and i was curious what the word of the day would be and the word of the day because merriam-webster is located in my home town and you have rejected the term targeted. is that correct? >> it is a term that implies something that didn't exist here. >> let me draw you into the weeds, by sheer irony, suggested they used the term of litmus test which they defined as a single factor as an attitude event or fact that is decisive in choosing these organizations. would you say there was a litmus test? >> no, the litmus test if any was political activity. >> one of my constituents who contacted my office yesterday outlining a pretty egregious situation, he is treasurer of a small nonpro

mr. miller? >> when i knew in may of 2012. that's the first i knew. >> mr. schulman. >> first time i remember knowing about this is in a conversation with my miller and at our about that same time. he told me he was taking action, the list had been corrected, and so, yes. yes. that's what happened. >> well, i was i the fact you didn't know is a management failure of some kind. and i would hope that the irs, at this point, when you have nine recommendations that the administration says are going to be implemented that those recommendations be implemented expeditiously. i realize that you don't have a direct impact on that any longer, but i think the the american people need to hear, mr. schulman, more of what you expressed after about ninety minutes here in answering senator cornyn's question about -- at the minimum a sense of disappointment and contrition as opposed to we didn't know and again i think an attitude that makes the problem worse. and i know i'm limit on time, but i'll try on the second round, maybe. >> thank you, senator. senator campbell. >> tha

mr. miller? >> that is correct, sir. >> they cannot find that your private medical information. >> that is correct, sir. >> the job in obamacare is to simply collect financial information on which a determination is made as to whether somebody can get a subsidy for their premiums. is that correct? >> water recovering and over what period. >> it is not a fascist takeover that is going on here but the health care system. and let's not forget that the irs has one of the hardest and most hated jobs and there are thousands and thousands of good solid hard-working americans who work every day to run this system. a couple of people make a problem, that does not damage the organization in my view. to get rid of the people who made the problem, but i would really like to hear from mr. miller. what do you need that with so that this wouldn't have happened? >> so there are two things, sir. and i appreciate your kind words because we are incredibly hard workers in an honest group and that seems to be forgott

mr. miller. mr. miller can't even remember his -- the names of the people who are in his chain of command. he can't even remember who he talked to last, what was the conversation about. did he talk to anybody in the secretary of treasury's office? he can't even remember dates, times and places. and finally, he couldn't remember when i asked him, who did you talk to about this? who came up with the criteria? if mr. levin is correct and the i.g. is correct, because he did stipulate this as well, he found this, that there was no evidence of white house influence or obama campaign influence, if that's correct, is this still appropriate of your chairman to keep saying culture of corruption throughout the government and this is an example of it if it had nothing to do with the presidential influence at all? >> i don't think that's proven yet. >> sure you do. okay. here's the question. if you have no evidence right now this friday of any white house involvement and don't have any evidence next week and the w

mr. miller. neither fulfilled their obligation. a little more than a week ago lois lerner was in front of our oversight subcommittee. she serves as the director of the exempt organization division and has been directly involved in this matter. yet she failed to disclose what she knew to this committee. choosing instead to do so at an aba conference two days later. this is wholly unacceptable and one of the reasons that we believe and as i stated several days ago miss lerner should be relieved of her duties. chairman camp and i put together this hearing on a bipartisan basis to get the facts. we must seek the truth not political gain. i just want to add in that regard. mr. camp has said listening to the nightly news this appears to be just the latest example of a culture of coverups and political intimidation in this administration. it seems like the truth is hidden from the american people just long enough to make it through an election. i totally, totally disagree. if this hearing becomes a -- e

mr. miller? >> i apologize for not having the date at hand, but it has been a couple of years now, i believe. >> the was the commissioner at that time? >> to appointed him? >> mr. bush. >> ok, let me start with two key issues. there's no question about the inappropriate criteria. i wanted to focus on that. let me first ask the right up front, if i may, mr. russell, during the course of your audit, were you allowed access to anyone requested to interview? >> to my knowledge we were not denied access to anyone. interview can employees in cincinnati and both d.c.? >> yes, we did. >> they stated they were not influenced by any individual organization outside the irs. is that correct? >> that the information we received. >> did you find any motivation and the tax-exempt notification? >> we did not. >> during your review of this matter coming you indicated when you had started, did you find any evidence of political motivation on the part of employees involved in processing the applications of this this

mr. miller. >> again, sir, i apologize for not having the date at hand. a couple years i believe. >> a couple years. who was the commissioner at that time? y >> i believe it was mr. shulman. >> who appointed mr. shulman? >> mr. bush. >> all right. let me start with two key issues. there is no question about the inappropriate criteria. i want to focus on that. but let me first ask or right up front if i might, mr. russell, during the course of your audit, were you allowed access to everyone you were requested to interview? >> to my knowledge, we were not denied access of anyone. >> did you interview employees in both cincinnati and in d.c.? >> correct. yes, we did, sir. page 7 of the i.t. report statsz, all of the individuals stated the criteria were not influenced by any individual or organization outside of the irs. is that correct? >> that is the information we received, correct, sir. >> did you find any evidence of political motivation in the selection of the tax exemption applications? >> we did not, sir. >> mr. miller, during your review of this matte

mr. miller. you really are not taking any acknowledgment that you knew anything or did anything wrong. you said that numerous times on the record today, you did nothing wrong. i find it hard to believe -- why are you resigning? >> i never said i didn't do anything wrong. what i said is contained in the questions. i resigned because as the acting commissioner what happens in the irs, whether i was personally involved or not, stopped at my desk. i should be held accountable for what happens. whether i am personally involved or not -- those are very different questions. >> i hope you would be willing to submit all of your e-mail, phone records, any personal meetings you have had in the past four years, i think that would really keep your reputation in good standing with this committee and the american people. >> we will have to talk about that. i am not saying no. >> thank you, mr. miller. >> mr. mcneal is recognized. >> thank you. your referenced an article from "usa today." there were democratic l

mr. miller. you really are not taking any acknowledgment that you knew anything and that you didn't do anything wrong. you have said that numerous times on the record today that you did nothing wrong. so i find it hard to believe why did you resign? or why are you resigning? >> i never said i didn't do anything wrong. what i said is contained in the questions. i resigned because as the acting commissioner what happens in the irs whether i was personally involved or not stopped at my desk. and so i should be held accountable for what happens whether i was personally involved or not a very different question, sir. >> i hope you would be willing to submit all of your e-mails, phone records, any personal meetings that you had in the last four years. and i think that would really i think keep your reputation in good standing with this committee and on the american people. >> obviously we will have to talk aboutt that. i'm not saying no. i just don't know. >> thank you, mr. miller. i yield back my time

mr. miller, and i yield back my time, mr.n. >> earlier, you referenced an article from "usa today" and i would like for the purpose of -- >>> we will step aside from the hearings to point out that shares of tableau has opened for trading and you can see up sharply the visualization of data software company selling 8.2 million shares at 31, but watching the stock price soar and you have a couple of holders there on the board having looked through the s-1 who own 19 million shares and not a bad day for the company, itself, i think about 52 million shares and we will have 52 million shares in total, but offering 3.8 million and 5 million of which are sold by the company, and therefore will raise money at 31, but wow, what a performance and a number of the hedge funds reported earlier, i wish we could have gotten a bigger allocation on this one, and it is a huge winner on the morning. now, we will go back to the hearings. >>> due to the fact that is decisive in choosing these organizations would you say that there was a litmus te

mr. miller. mr. miller did not provide any facts, chris. listen to the testimony. there were no facts, mr. levin, that mr. miller provided to this country as to why and how this criteria was applied. >> mr. reichert, i want mr. levin to take a minute. what do you want done here? i personally want to see the bad apples thrown out of the barrel and i'm not going to be satisfied watching as typical person, if you've got a big problem, there's got to be a big solution. two people isn't enough. the american people aren't going to believe if they've got the same people there, the same problem there. charlie rangel said there's a cancer here, you've got to remove it. do you agree with mr. rangel? >> i think there has to be action. i was the first democrat to say that mr. miller should be relieved of his responsibilities, and so mitch learner -- i said that a few days ago. i believe we need to get to the bottom of it. just don't throw apples at the top if you have no evidence to support it. and in the hearing today, there was no such evidence. we should have a nonpartisan

mr. miller? >> i apologize for not having the date at hand, but it has been a couple of years now, i believe. >> the was the commissioner at >> i believe it was mr. shulman. >> who appointed him? >> mr. bush. >> ok, let me start with two key issues. there's no question about the inappropriate criteria. i wanted to focus on that. let me first ask the right up front, if i may, mr. russell, during the course of your audit, were you allowed access to anyone requested to interview? >> to my knowledge we were not denied access to anyone. employees in cincinnati and both d.c.? >> yes, we did. >> they stated they were not influenced by any individual organization outside the irs. is that correct? >> that the information we received. >> did you find any motivation and the tax-exempt notification? >> we did not. >> during your review of this matter coming you indicated when you had started, did you find any evidence of political motivation on the part of employees involved in processing the applications of

mr. miller, why was this problem not corrected? mr. shulman. >> senator, could you just clarify the problem? >> yet, the line blurred. the lines of blurred between 527s and the 501(c)(4)s so there's an incentive for people to choose their tax status based on whether they want to either does but i think it's real straightforward to the line is blurred and you'll don't seem to do anything about and i want to know why not? >> look, let me state i think the law in the taxi good area is very complex. like -- >> we understand all the. why didn't he do anything on your watch to corrective? >> let me continue. the treasury regulation that the irs staff in cincinnati was wrestling with in this case our long-standing regulations. i believe they are 40 plus years, 50 old. and i did see that the inspector general in his report recommended that treasure ought to look at the regulations. i heard the chairman said he was going to look at this, and all i can say is that, you know, this is a very hard path given to the irs. to have the irs, which means

mr. miller: thank you. mr. chairman, i want to thank all my colleagues who entered into debate here this morning on this legislation. i think it is clear this is' a very big -- there's a very big different between our positions on this legislation. there's a very big difference between the president's bill, who is trying to use a market system, and this bill before us, mr. kline's bill, that uses a market system. the fact is that the president's bill saves students billions of dollars, but the republicans will not make president obama's bill in order for consideration. hy not? they say they're doing the same as the president. well, they're not. in fact, they're adding on $4 billion worth of debt onto the back of students over their program. and how can they possibly do that? you've heard my colleagues on this side of the aisle speak to the issues we hear all the time when we go home. the struggle of students, the struggle of families, be they low income, middle income, to get access and to be able to complete a

mr. miller -- please, mr. miller. >> yes, sir. >> you testified before this committee and you did not provide the information. you did not share the information you knew. so, my question is, do you not believe that -- this is the united states congress here that you are accountable -- >> megyn: what a day. what a day on capitol hill. some of those very same conservative groups targeted by the irs are planning on suing the organization now. in three minutes, we will speak to their attorney, jay seq. couldulo. he knew this b. this long before any of us did. and was representing these tea party groups and was asking what was going on only to be stonewalled by the irs. how things have changed. jay is next. the day building t begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy. ♪ picasso painted one of his master works at 56. doris taerbaum finished her first marathon at 50. not everyone peaks in their twenties. throug

mr. miller. mr. miller can't even remember his -- the names of the people who are in his chain of command. he can't even remember who he talked to last, what was the conversation about. did he talk to anybody in the secretary of treasury's office? he can't even remember dates, times and places. and finally, he couldn't remember when i asked him, who did you talk to about this? who came up with the criteria? he finally gave me the name. >> chris, can i break in? >> he finally gave me the name, chris, but he could not remember what she told him. now, look, this isn't somebody reporting -- this isn't somebody reporting late to work, chris. this is a serious issue that addresses civil rights. >> mr. levin, is that true? did they find out who was the one who said look for patriot groups, calling themselves patriot groups? look for groups that have tea party in their names. do we know who that was now? >> i don't think we have all the names. the people who did that were mistaken. it was a serious mistake. b

mr. miller, mr.u. >> the answer is no, i mean, you know, we-- >> okay, then let's move on. that's a good answer because that's the answer you ought to give, but how on earth could you let something like this happen under your leadership and do either of you feel any responsibility or remorse for treating american citizen this way? >> i think i started my public statement with an apology, sir, and i would continue that. i don't know what happened in your given case and as you well -pare aware, i can't speak to i under the 6103 rules, but i do apologize for the treatment of folks and look, there are two things that happened with these cases, first was the selection and the selection criteria was bad. second was their treatment once they were in that group and that, too, was bad, sir. it was. i don't know whether this particular organization was inside or outside of that group, but the service that folks got was not the service that we should be providing anyone. there's no question about that. >> mr. m

mr. miller, mr. shulman? i will start with you, mr. shulman. >> sure. during my time at the irs, you know, i believed and i articulated that the irs needed to be a nonpolitical, nonpartisan -- >> you may have a ticket of that, but how did this happen? >> i think that there's a set of rules build into the system, there's laws, there's education of people that it into vast majority of the irs employees understand that. >> what conditioncondition s cause about? my time is expiring here. it already has expire differently. 80 pages very quickly in a nutshell, bottom line, how did this happen? >> mr. chairman, i can't say. i can't say that i know the answer. i am six-month about -- >> you've got some sense because you're a commissioner for good number of you to give you some idea. you've thought about this. >> i am six-month out of office. when i left, the ig was looking into this together all of the facts. i don't have the benefit of reading the report, and that come in, full accounting of facts that i ha

mr. miller: mr.speaker, i reserve. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from maine. mr. michaud: thank you, mr. speaker. at this time i'd like to yield as much time as he may consume to the gentleman from california, mr. takano. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from california is recognized. mr. takano: i thank the gentleman from maine for yielding. mr. speaker, i rise today to support the increased job opportunities embodied in h.r. 1412 and the changes it makes to the on-the-job training and apprenticeship programs at the department of veterans affairs. i want to thank mr. coffman, the gentleman from colorado, or introducing this bill and the veterans' committee leadership, chairman miller, ranking member michaud and subcommittee chairman flores for moving this bill through committee. this legislation will expand access to veterans to on-the-job training and apprenticeships and assist employers in hiring veterans who have shown time and again that their real-world experience, leadership and

mr. miller or mr. shulman, either one of you. >> the answer is, no. >> let's move on. that is the answer you should give. how could you let this happen under your leadership and do either of you feel any responsibility or remorse for treating american citizens this way? >> i started my statement with an apology. i will continue that. i do not know what happened in your given case. i cannot speak to it. i do apologize for the treatment of folks. there are two things that happened with these cases. first, the selection criteria and it was bad. second, the treatment when they were in the group. that was bad. it was. i do not know if it was this organization, the service that folks got was not the service we should be providing anyone. there is no question about that. >> mr. miller, i wrote a letter raising questions about the spontaneous apology made at the american bar association. lerner said it was spontaneous. wasdenied that the question planted. you admitted during your testimony last week that the irs had planted the question to be asked. you said "it was a prepared

mr. miller is passing the buck down. he is saying i was informed but it was these hapless people trying to make their workload efficient. so i have to believe that the committees are going to reach into these happenless people. say why don't you come in and tell us if that's what you were really doing. at that point they'll say, tell us a little about yourself. i think there is a lot of shoes to drop in this yet. >> it looks like you want to jump in there. >> he has roped the door by laying this out on these employees. he has opened that door. maybe it is their turn to be examined. that that, i do think with all of this mess, there is a possible, possible good news for the obama administration. when a president is facing this type of criticism and this scandal mania, who does he need? he needs his base. so maybe on certain issues, he will stop, he will stoppagering his base by trying to be more conciliatory and compromises. maybe this is his chance to shore up the base. >> it could give him an opportunity. >> an opportun

mr. miller -- >> mr. miller, to the best of my memory told me at that time that it had been stopped and tigta was looking into it. so for me, the -- >> you had knowledge of the bolo list at this time? >> what's that? >> you had knowledge of the existence of the bolo list at this time? >> it was brought to me at this time. >> it was brought to you. that was the first time you knew about it, when mr. miller brought it to you? >> that is my memory. i've been out for a long time. but i'm, put it this way. i believe it is and i certainly don't remember ever hearing about it before. >> mr. miller, was that the first time you discussed with then commissioner about a bolo list? >> i believe so. >> and did you have any additional follow-up conversations about the scope of the audit? >> so, the scope of the audit would have been, would have been the inspector general coming to us and discussing that. >> what action did you take as the deputy once you learned of a bolo list and, potential practices that existed in ci

mr. miller and mr. shulman, the s have blurred between political active groups that disclose their donors, those with the 527's, and those who do not. those are the 501(c) fours. it has become apparent that organizations that ought to be 527's are applying for c4 disclosurevoid obligations. that means there is an incentive for people to choose their tax status based on whether they want to hide their donors. my view is that is a legal that congress ought to close. given that to be exempt from federal income tax, action 501(c) four of the code requires nonprofits to operate exclusively for the promotion of social welfare. i question to the two of you, why was this problem not corrected? clarifyor, could you the problem? >> the line is blurred. the as war between the the 527's and the 501(c) fours. the year -- there is an incentive to choose a tax status based on whether they want to hide their donors. you all do not seem to have done anything about it. i want to know why not. melamy state that -- let sta

mr. miller. it is not the most comfortable. appreciate that you as a career civil servant accepted responsibility, even though you have not done these things directly and resigned. it is an air of responsibility that you do not often see in the political arena. i am hopeful that we can continue to probe to direct, to make sure that no political entity is subject to inappropriate activity on behalf of the irs. i appreciate some of my colleagues talking about efforts that we can do to clarify laws and regulations together. to be able to make sure that there is less ambiguity. i also think, at some point, it will be interesting to rough legged on congress' role in what the chairman referred to as pretty strong terms about tax code, when i came here in the 104th congress, there were 114,000 employees in the irs. since i have been here, congress and its wisdom has expanded the code, made it more complex and cut genetically the men and women who are on the front lines to deal with it. they're in inadequate training budget. we had thi

mr. miller: mr. chairman, we have no other speakers at this time so we are prepared to close if the ranking member is as well. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from florida reserves. the gentleman from maine. mr. michaud: thank you, mr. speaker. in closing, mr. speaker, h.r. 570, as amended, is a solid piece of legislation. one that the veteran service organizations supports. that the committee supports. i urge my colleagues to support this bill. with that, mr. speaker, i have no further speakers so i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from maine yields back the balance of his time. the gentleman from florida. mr. miller: mr. speaker, i once again urge all my colleagues to support h.r. 570, as amended. and i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from florida yields back the balance of his time. the question is, will the house suspend the rules and pass the bill h.r. 570, as amended. so many as are in favor say aye. those

mr. miller? >> correct, sir. >> they cannot find out your private medical information. >> that's correct, sir. >> their job in obama care is simply to collect paid financial information on which a determination is made as to whether somebody can get a subsidy for their premiums, is that correct? >> with you are covered and over what period is what we would be getting. >> steven miller is the outgoing acting commissioner of the i.r.s. he was asked to leave a day after the inspector general's report was released. the president has named dan

mr. miller, and you've been

mr. miller, and you have been uncooperative during the hearing. >> what day did the conversation take place? >> i would have to look back at

mr. miller, mr. george, we have sat here for quite some time coming and i will tell you that this is offensive. this is offensive to hear this testimony. and what i would like to do is -- i know you are disagreeing with the word targeting, mr. millard. i suggest the american people will make the determination. i will give this whole situation and may miss the u.s. targeting date. i will put it out there. we are going to get to the bottom of this and we are going to get on this until it's done. you were not fired from your job to get i can tell you in my private experience you would have been fired on the spot. and all you were allowed to do is resign and of retired? and now you come here and somehow try to say i did the honorable thing by falling on my sword? nothing that is going to happen to you. you were going to get your full benefits. >> nothing bad is happening. that is the level of accountability in washington, d.c. now. you came here on the taxpayer dollar today correct. he said we need to as

mr. miller: i yield two minutes to mr. courtney. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for two minutes. mr. courtney: thank you, madam speaker. madam speaker, i rise today in opposition to the patients' rights repeal act. this is now number 37, the 37th time that we have debated this issue and we've now built up quite an archive of hysterical predictions by the republicans during all these debates and three years of experience to see how those predictions have actually panned out. prediction number one, obamacare was going to kill medicare advantage plans. has that happened? no. in 2013 this year, 14.5 million americans have enrolled in medicare advantage plans, up from last year which was 12.8 million. and while the enrollment is up, the cost has stayed flat even. the monthly premium, average monthly premium for medicare advantage this year versus last year went up $1 a month. health savings accounts, the g.o.p. said that the obamacare would kill health savings accounts. this year, in 2013, health savings accounts ha

mr. miller said it was foolish mistakes. do you agree or do you conclude after the hearing today it was something more sinister? >> even the inspector general said this was really a pattern. this was targeting of people who had conservative political views. the other thing that was i think really problematic is we didn't get enough answers. we he didn't get enough information. there was a lot of lack of memory. a lot of really not being forthcoming and so there is going be a lot more to do and as i said at the end of the hearing that is just the beginning, this investigation is going to be ongoing and that is a promise he made to the american people. >> greta: you talk about lack of memory and say the answers weren't forthcoming. was that memories fade or do you think that the witness was being cagey with you, coy and trying to hide something. >> you know, when you got through several hours of that i think an arrogance at the irs came across in bright colors and that was disconcerting to all of us and as you saw the hearing

mr. miller and also from the other inspector general exactly what happened. we need to find out from mr. miller why there wasn't complete information given to the congress well before this hearing. we should have been -- we should have been informed completely. >> two other names, sir, i want to bring up in talking about this. we already talked about the former irs commissioner, douglas shulman. also the name lois lerner. director of the irs's exempt organizations division who let it slip last week that low level irs staffers had focused extra scrutiny on conservative groups. aren't you interested in what lerner might say? >> absolutely. absolutely. she essentially disclosed this at an aba meeting. and the question is, why didn't we hear more of this earlier? we need to get to the bottom of it, and we're going to do that. as i said, the president said, the original singling out was outrageous. and now we need to find out exactly what happened after that. there were different formulas used by irs. and then eventually we get the facts. they should have come for

mr. miller. >> i have some paperwork. i am dick miller, neighborhood association vice president. we support this change. we came tohill. much when ccac they were outreaching. they invited us to all of the activities and share their facilities at the old original location and the new one. they have done a beautiful design job on the greyhound station and a school and nicest architecture in the show place sc -- square and they wanted to be our neighbor and they have been and shared the plans with the planning department and they should have told you that, so we support the very much. we love ccac. if you haven't been to their fashion show go. it's great. thank you very much. >> thank you mr. miller. ms. woods. >> good afternoon. my name is corine woods. i'm a neighbor of ccac. they're two blocks from me and i am chair of the mission bay ccac which unanimously endorses the support for the sud. we have worked with ccac for many years. they were active when we were going through the eastern neighborhood rezoning. they let us use their facilities for meetings. they were very involved i

mr. miller, does the committee -- mr. miller? >> reporter: a continuing question, brian, is what did the obama administration know and when. today the inspector general said he told senior treasury officials last june he was conducting an investigation but didn't provide any details. he informed secretary jack lew of the review in march. lew said he learned of the findings only last week. brian? >> lisa myers in our washington newsroom tonight. lisa, thanks. >>> also joining us from washington tonight, moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. tough to sort out here. any profiles in courage, and can you separate heat from light? how much real damage and how long does this go on? >> i think it goes on for a while. republicans understand how politically powerful this scandal is. democrats agree as well. but i still think there is a lot more to be learned and lisa's reporting speaks to it. why wasn't there better oversight particularly in the treasury department. people in the white house are concerned even as the president take

mr. miller, the outgoing acting commissioner at the irs. one key republican tried going after miller for the i.r.s. trial to say there was no bias against conservative groups. >> if the targeting wasn't targeting, if the targeting wasn't based on philosophy, how come only conservatives got snagged? >> they didn't, sir. organizations from all walks and all persuasions were pulled in. that's shown by the fact that only 70 of the 300 organizations were tea party organizations of the ones that were looked at -- >> in contradiction to the testimony. i yield back. >> greg: republicans clearly wanted miller to start naming names. who started the targeting, whose idea. he did not want to get into that, and so there was some frustration, greg. >> greg: he had some considerable memory lapses at the most inconstant event -- inconvenient time. what did we hear from key democrats? >> sandra levin is the top democrat on the 'panel. he said they needed to seek the truth and not political gain, but he also seemed to tap into some of the emotions. >> all of

mr. steve miller and j russell and the ig for taxpayers. i must say we welcome you to the table, but we have to distinguish jurors, mr. george russell. so you have these names that transpose here but i gather your distinguished as my two colleagues. >> our colleague invited mr. george to testify and interest of the subcommittee chairman we have the benefit of thinking on ag to it they identify management problems and gave a heads up in the boondoggles which i know that we are worried about and it is a way of a sense of frugality and to come together i say that mr. miller your the acting commissioner, you have a big job and we are going to give a big opportunity to tell you would you please proceed. >> thank you, chairwoman ranking member and the members of the subcommittee. i appreciate the opportunity to testify today. before i give more detail on the proposed budget if i could let me report on this year's filing season. i'm happy to report that the filing season ran in various movement. through april 20 of the irs received 140 million indi

mr. miller said that there is no partisanship going on. what was going on was low level staffers trying to have a foolish way of managing their work load. which is certainly an odd answert that will get more scrutiny next week. take a look at the contention between the republicans and mr. miller in this clip with representative brady of texas. >> mr. ller, who in the irs is responsible for targeting conservative organizations? >> so let me first say i cannot speak to a given case. >> who is responsible for targeting these groups? >> so, again, i'm going to take exception to the concept of targeting because it is a loaded term. >> can you assure this committee that none of the information provided the irs by these groups was shared or given to any other federal agency? >> i would be shocked, congressman, if that happened, shocked. >> now, you see there, thomas, the back and forth. something that miller did say consistently during this entire hearing was that he answered the questions that were asked of him. however, he did say in may of 201

mr. miller apologize for yesterday was horrible customer service. these many cases, organizations have applied and have waited not just weeks or months, but in some cases years to figure out if they are receiving tax-exempt status. as part of the process, they have had to fork over also to of information. eople complained about needing o give up donor lists or answer questions whether they knew a local activist or answer questions whether they knew in the body in their organization ever planned to run for office or previously run for office. one group said give copies of all things they have distributed to members. they had a book club surveys and then copies of books there were reading. they said this is what we're doing and we are trying to comply with this. it took literally years to resolve sunday's cases and in many cases, their unresolved. -- some of these cases. the other point, it was not necessarily a mistake on the part of the irs to ask him these questions. sometimes it is relevant to know if there is a donor involved, if that person may