ms. bowman: there are two right here. we will put both of these on the table. >> i used to work for the charles koch foundation. a lot of industrialists left their money to foundations that would be used in anti-capitalist causes. what do you think about foundations be set up to spend themselves out of existence? mr. zinsmeister: spending down is a big priority of modern donors. the fraction of foundations that used to spend down used to be 5%, and last time i checked is close to 30% now, and a fast-rising curve. not only because you can get into new attitudinal territory that would be unpalatable to the original donor, but because the power in most cases of this philanthropy is it is connected to the vigorous problem-solving ideas of the donor. and what could become embedded in a foundation -- it becomes sclerotic. you lose that freshness that made philanthropy important in the first place to encourage donors to spend hard when they are alive and make sure that the people they really trust clean up in 5, 10, 15 years aft