ms. carroll's lawyers want to use trump's deposition testimony so they're unlikely to call him as well.ms. carroll will lay out the evidence she's suing based on this new york statute that allows people who were sexually assaulted to bring charges way after the statute has expired and she's also suing for defamation. so she's going to say that trump raped her and then lied about her. when you look at the ways that she says this, she's experienced this trauma over the last 30 years, it's quite devastating. so the attorney is likely to credit that testimony, they'll just have to decide at the end of the day if they believe the former president or ms. carroll. >> thank you both. >>> the cable news shake up, where will conservative fire brand tucker carlson take his megaphone now? could he decide to run against former president trump even? that's next. try bounce lasting fresh dryer sheets. ♪ more freshness. more softness. less static. less wrinkles. yeah! it's the sheet! ♪ bounce lasting fresh dryer sheets. it's the sheet! ♪ what is it about the first warm breeze of the season that makes y

ms. carroll's lawyers can reference that and ask for an inference against him. a criminal trial. >> you made the parallel of the o.j. simpson case. even with the acquittal there was payment. that was the penalty in that si civil case. is that what could potentially happen here if e. jean carroll gets a ruling in her favor that there would be a financial penalty. >> absolutely. there's a financial penalty for the damages for the defamation, injury to her reputation and character. then there would also be damages for a tort, the sexual battery of the perhaps injuries to her. it sounds like it's caused long-term damage for her in terms of counccounselling. >>> can artificial intelligence help police departments evaluate their officers in the field? cnn got a firsthand look at new technology being tested across the country. see for yourself, next. so i thought i'd give it a try. it was easy. i inputted information about the car r including, the mileage, the vin number. ananswered a few questions and got a real offer in seconds. it felt too good to be true. it was a

ms. carroll wore on the day of the alleged assault. dress you supposedly wore that day? carroll, yes. didn't throw it out? carroll, no, it was a beautiful dress. you didn't earn burn it, carroll, no, i would never burn a beautiful item of clothing. judge kaplan, we'll break here for the day, we'll return at 10:00 a.m. and that was that. joining us now "the new york times" author and msnbc contributor michelle goldberg. michelle, so good to see you. i found so much of and extraordinary and distressing, and one of the most sort of excruciating exchanges but also enlightening exchanges was e. jean carroll's description of how she thought about this what she calls rape and the moments after it happened. i just wonder for people who haven't read this, i want to read this description and this exchange mr. her and mr. tacopina. now, carroll testified she thought trump was going to -- they were in the lingerie part and she thought mr. trump was actually going to try on the lingerie himself. she thought this was all a fupy interaction they were

ms. carroll. voice cracking, i'm telling you, he raped me, whether i screamed or not. then later on in the series of questioning, the attorney said, so you didn't scream while you were being raped because you didn't want to make a scene? carroll said that's right. that's probably why i didn't scream. he was then asking her specifics about this encounter, saying she was wearing four-inch heels, how could she fight off trump? she said she could dance backwards and forwards in heels. he asked her about her handbag. she said she had it in her hand the entire time and questioned how that was possible if she was pushing off the former president, who was more than twice her weight. you know, they also were going back and forth over why she never reported this attack, and her friend -- one of her friends she talked to advised her not to saying -- remember, this is back in the '90s when trump is the real estate tycoon. her friend advised her that he would bury her. she and his attorney now that he's the mo

ms. carroll. through tears carroll asserted i'm telling you he raped me. whether i screamed or not. i don't need an excuse for not screaming. tacopina an experienced trial attorney also currently defending trump in an unrelated criminal case being brought by manhattan district attorney alvin bragg is known for his brash style of defending clients. >> no, no can't be. this was a federal presidential election. the allegation here in some twilight zone scenario. >> reporter: outside court, a trump spokesperson said that the case is entirely political and trump himself accuses carroll of lying saying her case is, quote, a made up scam. tacopina pressed carroll on why she waited until 2019 to go public with her story. she said she was mourning her mother's death and then, i thought this may be a way to change the culture of sexual violence. the light donned, we can actually change things if we all tell our stories. and i thought, by god, this may be the time. tacopina told the judge he is about halfway through his cross-examination. there is no court on friday, so carroll is expected to

ms. carroll is seeking damages for alleged battery and for defamation, and that is because in 2019 when carroll published accusations trump attacked her, he followed that 2016 playbook he called her a liar >> it's a total false accusation, and i don't know anything about it. and she's made this charge against others and, you know, people have to be careful because they're playing with very dangerous territory. >> in a 2019 interview with the hill trump said it never happened and anyway, she wasn't his type he then repeated his denials just this past fall after e. jean carroll filed this lawsuit. it's a complete con job, it's a hoax and a lie, this woman is not my type. that most recent denial she made after he left office is the subject of this defamation case. it could be used this case along with the testimony of two other women. in their opening statement yesterday carroll's attorneys pointed the xi jury to trump's "access hollywood" comments. as for the impact this has all had on her life carroll said trump's remarks shattered my reputation, and i'm here to try and get my life back so that

ms. carroll need to show in the civil trial to be successful in her lawsuit? shayna: e. ll, she has to prove a preponderance of the evidence, which essentially means more likely then not that she was, that she suffered harm as a result of this, emotional harm, and that her career and her livelihood was damaged, that she suffered reputational damage as a result of what donald trump said. really though specifically just what he said last year in a social media post, which mirrored comments he made to reporters in 2019 this first came out. it is sort of like a duplicate set of defamation charges. there is a separate lawsuit still pending in an appellate court for the older defamation claims from this trial does contain defamation and battery allegations related to the alleged assault. >> the former president has given some testimony in deposition. he's not expected to be a live witness, but do we know if you will be in the courtroom? >>'s attorney has not, last i saw, i did leave a little bit before the proceeding ended, but last i saw and heard, his attorney has not fully c

ms. carroll put up marla maples and ivana trump trump mistook e. tell them apart. your thoughts on the strategy of saying i didn't rape her, she's not my type? >> i have tried a lot of rape cases because i was a sex crimes prosecutor, so i can tell you that an old case like this can be very difficult. but in this case, you have a very articulate victim, you have two outcry witnesses, outcry witnesses in my business are the first people a rape victim speaks to. and they can come forward. they're an exception to the heresy rule. and then you have this frame of the case, which is the "access hollywood" tape, which is i can take whatever i want because i'm a star that fits the other two women who were coming forward, who he also sexually assaulted, and then if you add that he is so disrespectful to the jury that he's not even coming, and then one little thing that i don't think people realize that's a real problem in this case for him, and that is there isn't anybody to do the cross-examinations you know, i'm not of the belief that joe tacopina is dumb.

ms. carroll's lawyers that it is mr.l measure been responsible for the amount of media coverage that former president trump has received in this matter. but second, and perhaps more importantly, for over 240 years in this country, we have had high profile cases take place in front of juries that are found to be fair and impartial because everyone participates in the selection of those jurors. the attorneys here, the plaintiffs' lawyers and the judges define in the universe a large number of jurors, hundreds will come in and be asked questions and those jurors who eventually sit to decide the facts will be fair and impartial, and that's the way the system has worked, in countless numbers of high profile cases, i expect that's what will happen here, and i don't think the judge is going to grant a continuance, especially one as modest as this, four weeks i think this is another difficult hurdle for mr. tacopina, i think this trial will go forward very soon. >> in just a few seconds, phil rutger, one of the other things dona

ms. carroll wants had him to retract his statement last year denying that the rape owe qurayshied there'se district attorney in fulton county, georgia, investigating trump and others for their alleged attempts to overturn the 2020 election results in the state of dxg. look at this district attorney willis sent letters like this one to czarrous law enforcement agencies in fulton county today basically giving them a heads-up telling them to be ready for possible indictments in this case this summer she says, quote, in the near future i will announce charging decisions resulting from the investigation my office has been conducting into possible criminal interference in the administration of georgia's 2020 election and providing this letter to bring to your attention the need for heightened security and preparedness quote, the announcement of decisions this this case may provoke a significant public reaction i will be announcing charges decisioning results from this investigation during fulton county superior court's fourth term of court, which will begin on july 11th, 2023 and conclude on se

ms. carroll as man hating, noting the premise of her book was men were a nuisance.ted him, the premise is men should be rounded up and sent to montana to be retrained. he gestured to all the men in the courtroom, all those men she said she meant it satirically, at thas point, the judge interrupted and said it comes from jonathan swift, a modest proposal, 700 years ago and she smiled during moments like that where tacopina was trying to portray her as a political activist or a man hater, there are six men on the jury, six or seven men on the jury what was their sort of reaction to that kind of interchange? >> there are six men and three women. and there was a lot of banter back and forth there was fairly civil, but it did get pretty heated, and as i said, the judge was breaking in. but she did say, i don't hate men. i actually love men. and there was some chuckles within the courtroom but yes, it was -- the discourse was very combative at times. and the jury was picking up on it >> you know, and katie, those who have seen joe tacopina on ari melber's show, they know

ms. carroll better advice than robbie kaplan, and no one's going to be able to suss out the details of thisout whether it's a case that should be brought than robbie. and the next day, i somehow -- i connected them together, and then the next, you know, months later apparently they determined to bring suit, and they did. >> and you think -- >> and that's where we are today. >> and you think this could be serious trouble for donald trump? >> it could be. i mean, look, i don't want to predict what juries will do. i believe e. jean carroll. i believe -- i've gotten to know her. i think she's a truthful and wonderful person, a kind person. she's somebody who doesn't say a nasty -- doesn't have a nasty word to say about anybody. and i find particularly compelling, as in the other "me too" cases, the fact that two independent people will testify that jean carefuroll told me th story about what happened at the department store, you know, within a day or two after it happened. i mean that's always -- if you've read the work of ronan farrow in "the new yorker" and jody cantor in "the new york times,

ms. carroll.s screaming or should have screamed, and she said i'm telling you he raped me whether i screamed or not. at that point her voice was cracking. she also said that, you know, the reason why many women don't come forward is because they get criticized for not screaming. this back and forth continued where he then asked her, so you didn't scream while you were getting violently raped because you didn't want to make a scene? and carroll said, that's right. that's probably why i didn't scream. he then continued to go on and press her about the struggle inside of the dressing room. he said -- he pointed out to her, you were wearing 4 inch heels during this whole struggle. and she said i can dance backwards and forwards in 4 inch heels. he pointed out her tights. she was wearing tights that trump had pulled down before he raped her, and he pointed out to her that her tights never ripped, and carroll said, no, they never ripped. he said they were flexible tights and he also asked her about a pu

ms. carroll's answers were curt. it is critical that we pay attention to it.r that it is tempting to minimize this case. after all, it's just one of many. who can keep straight the gusher of allegations, indictments that are actual and impending. it's simile another sorted example of trump's behavior, unmoored and yet unpunished. the adult film star paid off, the play boy model whose tale of an affair with trump was done and we need to remind ourselves of how far trump has dragged ourselves down into the gutter reduced to his level of tawdry entitlement. the account was not only about a former president, it is also about a man who by all measures seems poised to claim his party's nomination a third time. the current front-runner for the gop presidential nomination being accused of rape is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. washington post federal courts and law enforcement reporter shayna jacobs is here. also joining us barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney now law professor and katty kay. barbara and katty are msnbc contr

jean carroll civil rape trial against donal trump. quote, the case is ms. e. name, to pursue justice and ge her life back that was part of th opening statement from e. jean carroll's lawyer to explai while she is taking donald trump to court e. jean carroll, a writer, i now trump raped her in the dressing room of a new yor city department store in the 1990s and then defamed her whe she went public with his allegations in 2019. she, like many victims, did no reported to the police at th time but even though the statute of limitations has expired for criminal investigation and criminal charges, e. jea carroll is able to sue donal trump for the rape in civi court under a 2022 law in ne york that opened a one-yea window for adult victims o sexual offenses. today, six me and three women were selecte to the jury who heard th opening statements from both e jean carroll and zone trump' lawyers. this jury will determine whether to award damages to e. jean carroll if they find al trump liable for assaulting he and for defaming her and we will discuss what the standard is

jean carroll case, ms.orf goodman, is a made up, all caps, scam her lawyer is a political operative financed by a big political donor, blah, blah, blah i'm not going to read the rest of it but he goes on to invoke monica lewinsky's dress and stuff. the judge then said that trump refused -- it's insanity but what he's amplifying and it goes right back to the point that e. jean carroll writes about, right? that just to be up there playing by all the rules subjects you to a litany of threats, exposes you to death threats >> absolutely. and what's so interesting about what the judge has done and even that statement you just read, making potentially false accusations about e. jean carroll's lawyer being financed by a shadow group. these are things that as we've seen in the dominion case some people are actually willing to sue over if they're patently false. trump hasn't faced consequences in a very, very long time, if ever this is a very unusual point in his life where there are consequences that may come to bea

nbc's laura jarrett with that report trump commented on the case yesterday before carroll took the stand, calling her "ms. bergdorf goodman. on truth social, he called the allegations a,quote, made up scam, adding that it is a fraudulent story and witch hunt. the judge called the statement entirely inappropriate all right. >> let's talk about, also, willie, disney actually stepping forward against ron desantis they're going to sue because they believe he improperly used the power of state government to go after, you know, to go after disney like we've said before, doesn't make a lot of sense in the state of florida, and especially doesn't make a lot of sense right now if bob iger is on the other side. >> i think governor desantis is finding out this is a different animal now that bob iger is back running the company. the comment that governor desantis objected to from disney about that legislation last year was from the previous ceo, who is no longer there remember, he's fighting disney, the largest private employer in the state. we'll have charts from steve rattner in a few minutes showing just how big