ms. cooper for your service. >> ms. maloney. >> well, ms. cooper, secretary hale. ms. cooper, thank you for working late on a wednesday, i think the last time we attempted to hear your testimony, the republicans were good enough to bring pizza down to the scif. kidding aside, i know we detained you for five hours that day. so on behalf of the committee, thank you for your forbearance. we appreciate your patience with us. quick question, for you and i think one question for you, secretary hale, ms. cooper, was the dod able to put all of the security assistant funds in contract before the end of the fiscal year? >> no, sir. >> how much were they not able to obligate, what was left on obligated? >> i believe the figure was 35 million, we were able to actually obligate 88% total. >> i think you mentioned you were able because of legislation, congress passed, continuing legislation to do that, right? >> the remainder we were in the process of obligating, because of the provision in the continuing resolution. >> but for the act of congress, you could not have spent all the mo

ms. cooper? >> i'm not a lawyer but that approximates my understanding of the provision of the impoundment control act. >> i will go with that, thank you very much. >> mr. conaway. as paul harvey said, here's the rest of the story. certain issues with respect to the certification. dod certification was not corruption writ large through the entire country of ukraine. it was focused on defense institutional reforms and combat capability. >> that is correct. >> ms. cooper, thank you for being here. i appreciate it. my colleagues seem to leave that out. he left off the correct emphas emphasis. certification in may didn't really speak to the broader concept of corruption throughout the rest of ukraine that the president would be familiar with, the -- >> the main certification was specific to the defense sector, defense industry, and it did reference the importance of civilian control of the military which relates more broadly. >> none of us would argue that that fixes corruption throughout the rest of

ms. cooper? >> no, that does not sound appropriate. >> ambassador hale, you testified that you were aware ambassador sondland was involving himself in matters that, and i quote, went beyond the normal writ of an ambassador to the european union, unquote. as you understood it, who authorized ambassador sondland to work on ukraine? >> i had no first-hand knowledge of that. i received a readout from a meeting that the president of the united states had with the delegation on may 23rd in which the briefing i received anyway, indicated that the president wanted the members of that delegation which included ambassador sondland to carry forth the policies that were discussed in the course of that meeting. >> so that occurred in a meeting in the oval office is when you heard that information with the written readout of that, yes. >> you testified and i quote, it was clear that the members of that delegation were empowered by the president and it's what you testified and you also said, and i quote, as a p

ms. cooper for your service. >> ms. r and secretary hale thank you for working late on a wednesday the last time we attempted to hear your testimony the republicans brought pizza. [laughter] i know we have detained you for about five hours that days half of the committee thank you for your forbearance we do appreciate your patience. a quick question was dod able to put all the security assistant funds before the end of the fiscal year? >> no sir. >> how much could they not obligate or what was left unobligated? >> i believe the figure was 35 million we could obligate 80 percent total. >> that is because of legislation the congress passed with the resolution? >> the remainder we are in the process of obligating right now because of the provision and the continuing resolution. right. for an act of congress you could've spent all the money. >> if we did not receive the provision of the continuing resolution we would have obligated 88 percent but not thee full amount. >> right. which would be a violation of law to not spend

ms. cooper. can conclude that blankets and memories that are helping ukrainians in the legale defense of weapons are something that the trump administration has approved in a benefit to all of us. you. >> thank you, mr. chairman and thank you both fors s being hee this evening. there is a mystery surrounding the hold on the aid in july, but back and they i believe you said there was a that was conditioned but you certified in may that the condition had been met and they included progress on command and control reform, commitment to pursue reform and passed laws to enable government for procurement. is that correct? >> that is correct. >> when you find out in july the concern about corruption, you're scratching your head right? >> yes, ma'am -- >> do you know of any effort that was undertaken to assess the corruption in ukraine in june or july orr august? >> man as i believe i said in my deposition, the only specific discussion that i am aware of related to the interagency meetings, the sub pcc an

ms. cooper? >> a non-what? >> a non-impeachment inquiry question? >> my time is yours. >> what can we do to help the ukrainians defend against russian electronic warfare? what more can we do? >> what i can say in open hearing, there actually is some electronic warfare detection equipment that is included in equipment that is included in the usai package. there's a piece of capability downward already working to provide. i think the specific topic is more suitable for a closed door session. >> that's a good copy. >> thanks for both of your service and chairman i yield back. >> mr. castro. >> thank you chairman and thank you all for your testimony today. i want to make an important distinction. a few my colleagues have rattled off countries where we actually held up aid. there is a big distinction between holding up aid for legitimate policy reason and holding up aid because it's part of a shake down. it is in the service of the president who asked for a political favor of a country to investigate

prior to joining the department offense in 2001 ms cooper was a policy planning officer of the state department in the office of coordinator of counterterrorism 2 final points before witnesses are sworn 1st witness depositions as part of this inquiry were unclassified in nature and all open hearings will also be held at the unclassified level any information that may touch on classified information we dress separately and 2nd congress will not tolerate any reprisal threat of reprisal or attempt to retaliate against any u.s. government official for testifying before congress including you or any of your colleagues if you would both please rise and raise your right hand i'll begin by swearing you and you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god let the record show the witnesses answered in the affirmative thank you and please be seated the microphone is sensitive so please speak directly into it without objection your written statements will be made part of the record with that best for haleigh if you

ms. cooper? >> no, that does not sound appropriate. >> ambassador hale, you testified ambassador sondland was involved himself in matters and i quote, went beyond the normal writ of an ambassador to the european union, unquote. as you understood it who authorized ambassador sondland to work on ukraine? >> i have no first-hand knowledge of that. i received a read out from a meeting that the president of the united states had with the delegation on may 23rd in which the briefing i received anyway indicated that the president wanted the members of that delegation which included ambassador sondland to carry forth the policies that were discussed in the course of that meeting. >> so that occurred in a meeting on oval office may 23rd. >> a written read out, yes. >> you testified and i quote, it was clear that the members of that inaugural delegation were empowered by the president, is what you testified. you also said and i quote, as a practical matter it would be ambassador volker and ambassador sondl

thank you mr chairman list ms cooper the. who who. why did the office of management budget put a hold on the funds so the only information that i received was from the office of management and budget that they were operating at the direction of the president and they reported that he had concerns about corruption that is all that i knew about you but then your testimony president directly opposite managing budget to hold the funds because of his concerns about corruption in ukraine early judgment reason you agree that is the this the statement that the president reportedly made as reported to me by the office of management and budget and then you said in your testimony that based on recommendations from me and other key d.o.d. advisers the department heads in cornish with a partner of state certified in may of 2019 that ukraine had taken the steps necessary and you certified the release of the dollars is that accurate that is correct sir but there was you know there was a small change in ukraine in the spring of 21000 wasn't there. ye

ms. cooper. >> mr.irman, ranking member, members of this to many, i appeared today to provide facts and answer questions based on my experience has a deputy assistant secretary of defense for russia, ukraine, and eurasia. i would first like to describe my background as well as my own role and vantage point relevant to your inquiry. i bring to my daily work and to this proceeding my sense of duty to u.s. national security, not to any political party. i have probably served to democratic and to do. i entered government service through the internship -- working on counterterrorism in europe and the former soviet union. working on a defense's rotational assignment, i decided to accept a civil service position in the policy organization of the office of the secretary of defense in january 2001 where i am remained for the past 18 years. my strong sense of pride in serving my country and dedication to my pentagon colleagues were cemented in the moments after i felt the pentagon shake beneath me on september 11

ms. cooper what is going on in ukraine? >> no, sir. >> ambassador hale, did he ever call you to ask about an update on ukraine corruption? >> no, sir. >> on the other side republicans push the witnesses on the point that president trump did ultimately deliver the aid, including lethal weapons assistance, something the obama administration declined to do. and there is more to lookne forward to tomorrow morning shannon, we will hear from two other ukraine policy folksn, leona hill. she served as president trump's top in-house advisor on russia and europe over at the h white house before leaving that job this past summer, and david holmes, who had a top job at the u.s. embassy in kiev. shannon? >> shannon: very interesting rounds of testimony. i know you'll be watching two. our two top stories tonight, the round of house democrats marathon impeachment hearings on the hill and the 2020 democratic presidential tonight, facing off in atlanta. o bret baier joins us. he is fox news chief political anchor and host of "special report

ms. cooper, what is going on in ukraine?> no, sir. >> ambassador haley, did he ever call you to ask about an update on ukraine corruption? no, sir. >> on the other side, republicans push the witnesses on the point that president trump did ultimately deliver the aid, including lethal weapons assistance, something the obama administration declined to do. and there is more to look forward to tomorrow morning, shannon, we will hear from two other ukraine policy folks, leona hill. she served as president trump's top in-house advisor on russia and europe over at the white house before leaving that job this past summer, and david holmes, who had a top job at the u.s. embassy in gifts. she ended? >> shannon: very interesting rounds of testimony. i know you'll be watching two. our two top stories tonight, they were out of house democrats marathon impeachment hearings on the hill on the 29th of democratic presidential tonight, facing off in atlanta. bret baier joins us. he is fox news chief political anchor and host of "special report

ms. laura cooper. david hale serves as the undersecretary of state for political affairs with the department of state, a position he has held since august 30, 2018. mr. hale joined the service in 1984 and holds the rank of career ambassador. he previously served as the ambassador to pakistan, ambassador to lebanon, special envoy for middle east peace, deputy special envoy and ambassador to jordan. ambassador hale also served as deputy assistant secretary of state and assistant to secretary of state. laura cooper is a career member of the senior executive service. miss cooper previously served as a principle director in the office of the assistant secretary of defense for homeland defense and global security affairs. prior to joining the department of defense in 2001, miss cooper was a policy planning officer at the state department in the office of coordinator of counterterrorism. two final points before witnesses are sworn, first witness depositions as part of this inquiry were unclassified in nature

ms. cooper, if i can, page three. i heard the president directed the office of management and budget to hold funds because of his concerns about corruption in ukraine. and, you know, you come from the dod side here. i served a year in iraq. and it was important, and i think it's something that the army always does, as i have seen, that we don't want to deliver aid or assistance if it's going to some corrupt, or being delivered in some corrupt way. in other words if we're going to build a medical treatment facility for the iraqis, we want to make sure we're not getting charged ten times as much. we are concerned about corruption in general when we're delivering funds through the dod. is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> so, i think that's a normal thing to want to be concerned about. and we would do that in iraq, especially if we're providing payment for something. so i just want to go through a few things with you, because multiple witnesses have testified that the action to provide javelins to ukraine by the trump admini

ms. cooper in light of house resolution 660 whichpe lays out the procedure r public impeachment hearings, what you refrain from prohibiting any of the dod official from cooperating with congress going forward? >> so i i did not prohibit or t he did was i forwarded her to her lawyer information we receive from the white house that expressed their views about the impeachment process. one of the challenges we wouldn't be able to send a lawyer with it. to have that available information, but we understand each of individuals are making their own decision on how speedy even if you are just forwarding a letter that came out of your department but came from -- i forget where it emanated, but for you to send it, it does create a chilling effect. i think, are you intending to continueit to forward these kins of letters from thehe white houe or from any other -- >> i don't know of any other individuals being called. i would've felt it inappropriate for her to not be aware of this information and so that's why we shared it. >> but you can understand why speedy i understand. i understand the objectio

ms. cooper, you both for being with us. get inton before i some questions about ambassador sondland, who we heard from today. i want to ask both of you, if president trump with hallowed critical military aid from ukraine -- withheld could go military aid from ukraine because high-ranking military officials supported the president's political opponent, would you consider that an official acceptable appropriate action by the president of the united states? ambassador hale? >> that is not what i would advise. >> that does not sound appropriate. >> ambassador, you testified that you were aware that ambassador sondland was involving himself in matters, and i quote, "went beyond the normal writ of an to the european union." as you understood it, who authorized ambassador sondland to work on ukraine? >> i had no firsthand knowledge of that. from aved a readout meeting that the president of the united states had it with the delegation on may 23. in which, the briefing i received, indicated that the president wanted members of that

world and the great men and women in your department under secretary hale and in your department ms cooper they carry that mesh message around the world that the united states is devoted to the rule of law but when they see a president of the united states who is not devoted to the rule of law who is not devoted to anti corruption but instead demonstrates in word and deed corruption they are forced to ask themselves what does america stand for any more. i conclude. stephenie's hearing i will ask the witnesses to issues themselves members should remain we have a business matter to take up right that is sad and shift drawing a line under today's proceedings in a long day 3. witnesses we have heard today giving their testimony. in these open hearings public hearings in the impeachment inquiry into us president don't trump alan fischer with us our correspondent in washington d.c. as i said has been a lot to take in today. how about you take us through your views on what we've seen and heard today. big day important day historic day i think you know the republicans are parts missing a trick at

hearing and what ambassador gordon sondland said, and i should mention there was some pushback to what ms cooperwas congressman ratcliffe who is on the committee, he's a republican and one of resident from's allies on the committee, he pushed back and said, well, you said the ukrainians wanted to know about security assistance but they didn't talk about the whole, did they and she said, no, she couldn't confirm they wanted to know about the hold. so they are trying to see what a possible defence could be but it does seem like they are still going strong with their defence from the early hearing today about the quid pro quo. have democrats had their perfect witness, someone might point towards the potential smoking gun?” don't think there has been that perfect star witness. just as we have seen coming out of other political hearings this year in the us, it's almost as if the democrats and republicans are watching two different hearings. today you had asked —— ambassador gordon sondland saying, if you asked me this was a quid pro quo, i would say yes but also, as you played on the audio, he did al

ms. cooper was scheduled to testify before the house in a deposition you signed a letter to ms. cooper's lawyer for bidding her to end impeachment increase. dod testify under subpoena after receiving your letter she stated quote this is a challenging environment and just trying to put all my applications. this is challenging in both respects. in light off house resolution 60 in and the procedure for public and pitchman hearings you are free to. i forward herwas forwarded to her lawyer the information received from the white house that expressed your views about the impeachment process. i wanted her to have that available information. >> even if you are just forwarding the letter that came not out of your department but where it emanated but for you to defend it does create a chilling effect. are you intending to continue to forward these kinds of letters from the white house? >> i don't know of any other individuals being called. we would not let their lawyer be aware of this information that's why we shared it. >> you can understand why. >> i understand. if you don't send it or

ms. cooper at the department of defense in other testimony that the omb was the one who had told the departmentdefense not to release that $400 million in military aid to ukraine. that they so desperately wanted and as the deadline, the budget deadline approached on september 30th after which that money could not have been sent to them according to the budget rules of the u.s. government that she had been told by the office of management and budget that there was in fact a hold on that money. so the process still unfolding. we're still going through this trying to find these new information to report to you, richard, but that is what we have so far. >> white house correspondent mike viqueira going through that for us lickety split as they say and giving us some of the highlights. and i know we'll have more not only on nbc nightly news but right here on msnbc. thank you so much. let's bring back our guests. you were saying you were able to look through it and got some of the highlights from vick right there at the white house. you can pick from a lot of different items here, one of which as i wa

ms. cooper is talking about that would undercut that argument? >> yeah, that's right.asically indicated that in july the ukrainians likely understood what was going on. and remember, these are sophisticated diplomats. they understand there must be a reason they're not getting the aid. and then, all the other testimony, including ambassador sondland's today, has suggested that there were conversations going on about investigation was both the american diplomats and the ukrainians. it's likely that they knew. but even if you put all that aside and assume for a second argue endo that they didn't know, the president making that offer by amounts to bribe or extortion, that act whatever the ukrainians knew should be a crime. >> democrats abandoned trying to get testimony from john bolton. fiona hill reported to him directly at the white house. she is testifying tomorrow. how much do you expect her to be able to give you and give everybody a sense of how much bolton knew in her testimony? >> i hope that she can speak to that. and in fact she was one of the folks that actually

ms. cooper who serves at the pentagon, these people are concerned chiefly with national security.so it matters if the investigation, and boy, has the evidence piled up, shows to the public, shows to the country that that has been -- that national security has been undermined. does it also matter in politics? the senator knows more about that than i do, but probably. >> it does. >> the things that matter in politics are things that cross-pressure your brand. and his brand, if nothing else, is big, strong strongman who has to lie about his weight, lie about how he wins elections, i think he said 13,456 lies, but who's counting, not me. there are things he's doing now that cross-pressure not the judgment that any of us -- not an examination of whether or not he's loyal to the rule of law, he's not. not an examination of whether or not he's credibly accused of sexual misconduct by 19 women, he dis. not an examination of whether he debases the office, in my opinion he does. his base doesn't care about any of that. but his base does care about his projection of strength. and when you sa

ms. cooper, could speak to when she has her open hearing also next week. and you mentioned the depositions of new witnesses. the big bombshell today from taylor that one of his staffers had overheard this conversation between sondland and the president. that staffer will be deposed on friday. so we're moving towards answering all those questions. republicans for their part i think there were two lines of their counterquestioning that were particularly interesting. arguably, the most effective was when they leaned into the expertise of these two witnesses and had them talk about how corrupt ukraine has been in the past. and to try to set up their actual expertise as folks who know about ukrainian corruption to make an argument that any reticence on the part of the president to send money into a corrupt country was just smart politics on the president's part. the other strategy that they employed that i think we'll see again and again and again that i found interesting was you heard a little bit from jim jordan and from his counsel, mr. castor. they are not

ms. cooper yesterday on may 23, she told the white house that all the corruption issues were cleaned up. the hold is later placed on them. and finally this voices in his head defense, even if the president was irrational, these concerns he had about ukraine justified doing what he did and again, that's not a defense in any criminal court and it's not going to be a defense for the american people. >> eric swalwell, thank you so much, congressman. good luck today. >> thank you. >> the country is watching. wolf, over to you. >> thanks very much. good interview. let's continue the discussion with my team of experts. our correspondents and our analysts. jim sciutto, we've been going through dr. fiona hill's prepared testimony. she's going to be testifying the former top russia adviser to the president, on the national security council. this line also jumped out at me near the end of her opening statement. if the president or anyone else impedes or subverts the national security of the united states in order to further domestic political or personal interests, that is more than worthy of your

ms. cooper remain safe. what steps have you already taken to send a clear message to dod staff that their identity, their jobs and take it would be protected if they come forward tove report abuse or misconduct? >> so this is something we have as a matter of fact, it's on all sorts of things. we have ig reports, gao reports. this is part of the culture of how come when people come for respect and be honest and truthful in their dealings and we expect to be taken care been doing so. we look for and i just looks if there's an issue of reprisal to make sure those are held accountable for it and we look for the security. as i mentioned i will not measure but if we think there's a a security issue we do with local authorities. these are the types of things that occur in different forms and we provide the same standard and approach across the fifth i think it's in a fourth signal that we seenen in the way we del with organizations. >> it's very important for the dod from the top to say that the whistleblowers who

ms. cooper yesterday and there was some follow-up questions on where the republicans tried to draw some politicallood. they failed miserably. >> i loved laura cooper yesterday. my heart just soared a little bit to see how strong she was and how thorough and how unflappable. >> yes. >> i thought it was just a really impressive display of a person in the u.s. government who cares about their job, is passionate and is good about it. and it was just jaw dropping to watch how republican congressional members tried to stump her. and they tried to get her to say it was completely normal for a foreign country to follow-up about when they're aid was going to be delivered when she introduced the new email evidence that the ukrainians had reached out about. hey, what's up with the money? i found that to be significant, that she was able to just immediately be, like, no, this isn't actually the norm. >> and that's, again, first hand account. she said i have emails that show the ukrainians knew that the assistance was being held up. she shot holes quietly because people may have been wiped out after gordon so

cooper hale. on thursday, they will hear from ms.ld impeach an increase in their entirety on our website. you will find transcript of which -- testimony and procedure. plus, points of interest to each that identifies key hearings indicated by a star in the timeline. next week, watch live coverage of the house impeachment increase testimonies on c-span3, c-span.org or announcer: congress faces a deadline this thursday to pass ace temporary spending bill in order to avoid a government shutdown. house majority leader steny hoyer and minority leader steve scalise discuss the budget process late last week on the house floor. >> madame speaker i am deeply disappointed. tothe senate's failure complete their work on appropriations forcing us to consider another continuing resolution. this is an evidence of failure not success. it is absently essential that we pass the cr to keep our government operating, but it is an indication that we have not gotten our business done as we should. i would remind house members that we passed 96% of the by j

ms. nene leaks. >> we'll have a very serious housewives talk. >> we'll get into that drama. >>> meanwhile lady gaga is putting an end to the drama that shand bradley cooperook their on-screen romance off screen. i mean, remember that oscar performance. >> who can fort? >>ow gaga is setti the record straight to who else? oprah. >> quite frankly i think tha the press is silly.i mean, we m course we wanted people to believe we were in love. when we talked aboutt, we went, well, at least we did a good j because people think this is ue. it triggered flood of romance rumors. bradley told oprah the oscar performance proved it was the opposi of what evebody thght. >> we were talking about it and all the rumors about you guys last year ande said if they had been true, he never would have been able to look you in the eye sitting at that ano. >> absolutely. >> gaga got brutally honest about how winning the osc helped solidify her purpose to lift the stigma of mental illness. >> a reporter asked me when you look that oscar what do you see? iaid iaw a lot of pain. it was not eas work. i was raped when i was 19 years old repeatedly. ve not opened up very much about th