ms. farrell. it seems to me, one of the central issues here is there is a culture where over secrecy is actually valued. and there is no accountability for excessive secrecy. so we end up with 4 million people with security clearances, and i've heard my colleagues talk about the backlog question and i know that is very important to our companies, but i think to really get at the guts of this issue, we've got to deal with this over secrecy kind of question. i'd like to ask you, what, in your view, is the government doing that is most helpful in terms of reducing that 4 million number, which i think reflects that there are too many secrets out there and too many people are sitting on them. what's the government doing about that? >> senator, i'll start. >> i'd like to start with the gao. >> okay. >> thank you. that's okay. there's -- we have, in the past, recommended that d.o.d. and its components, the services as well as the agencies, evaluate their positions that require clearances to make sure tha