ms. hester? >> sue hester. up until now, most of the projects that come for prop. k exceptions on shadow have been a joint hearing by the planning commission at rec park where the shadow [inaudible] had a hearing and a vote by rec park and about by the planning commission and then after that, the planning commission went to consideration of the project. i think that is a good procedure because it pulls out as prop k did the whole idea of testimony on the shadows. two hours ago, one hour ago, the rec park commission heard the issue that is number 13 on your agenda. and they heard the shadow impact and they were explicit discussions among the rec park commissioners that the only thing that was relevant was not the project, but the shadows of the project. when you don't have a biforindicated hearing like you do when you have a joint hearing and you have it all lumped together with a through e, and don't only have one hearing, you are required to muddle the whole issue. you only have testimony -- little bit of testimony on the shadows and mostly it is about the merits

ms. hester raised a good point about topography. a 15-minute walk from church to castro via 21st street is probably a lot different and more difficult than a plat area. even though the measurement is the same in terms of feet. how do you take into consideration these kinds of things? >> some of this new -- these new software platforms also enable production and performance, you know, performance information and indicators. whether it's walking distances or solar radiation or, you know, a lot of these things that can be programmed into it and what we're limited on now is sort of a 2d map of a [inaudible] and that is the sophistication that we have but these two tools enable us to take things into consideration. >> thank you. >> i just wanted to first thanks, josh brought this to me a few months ago and took me a while to get my hands around it, what it actually was. >> it's -- a couple of things that struck me about why this was important. one, we still do an amazing amount of hand work on our data. as sophisticated as the reports ar