ms. jarmon: i am not aware. dr. cohen: we have terminated the loan agreements for the 12 co-ops that are shutting down. rep. collins: did we get any money back? dr. cohen: in vermont, we did get the vast majority of the money. there was some funding that was used in start up funds that was not recovered. on a go forward basis, we are making sure that consumers have coverage through the end of the year. the entities will be operating through the end of the year. at that time, we will do a run out of claims and understand the financial health of the organization and use all of our ability with the terms of the loan agreement to recover funds. rep. collins: that is not the case in new york. the co-op in new york which lost $250 million and is shutting down in two weeks time -- that does not line up with your testimony. dr. cohen: that is why we are doing so much of the hard work right now before the open enrollment period to make sure we understood the financial health of any one of these co-ops and because we want con

ms. jarmon: i am not aware. dr. cohen: we have terminated the loan agreements for the 12 co-ops that are shutting down. rep. collins: did we get any money back? vermont, we did get the vast majority of the money. there was some funding that was used in start up funds that was not recovered. basis, we ared making sure that consumers have coverage through the end of the year. the identities will be operating through the end of the year. at that time, we will do a run out of claims and understand the financial health of the organization and use all of our ability with the terms of the loan agreement to recover funds. rep. collins: that is not the case in new york. which lostn new york $250 million and is shutting down in two weeks time -- that does not line up with your testimony. dr. cohen: that is why we are doing so much of the hard work right now before the open enrollment period to make sure we understood the financial health of any one of these co-ops and because we want consumers to be confident that there would

ms. jarmon says this happened after our july review and they were going to come back in and we're going to look at this very unusual business practice and have a recommendation for you. that's the kind of thing that is hopeful. i am way over my time. i yield back. >> that's okay. we are missing a lot of our members. we will maybe ask a few more questions, you know, to dig down a little bit deeper. and again i'd like to set the stage. all of us. agree we need to be good stewards of taxpayer money. that's the purpose of this hearing. learning from what's happened the last two years, and losses have occurred. it sounds like a few co-ops are doing okay. half of them failed. there's lessons to be learned and i think the purpose of this hearing and our request for more information will be how can we take all of that and hopefully not continue to lose taxpayer money but ms. jarmon, there is a question for oig that the loan agreements as i understand it between cms and the co-ops do have provisions in them, enforcement provisions. and i just wondered, could you, you know, explain what some of thos

ms. jarmon, let me ask you. in the private business world, i think if you did that you'd be accused of fraud if you started recharacterizing your debts as assets and putting them on your balance sheet as an asset. i have never even heard of somebody saying the federal government would approve such a process. how do you all view that? >> i believe that came out in guidance in july of this year so it was after we had done our work. we will be looking at it. >> you're going to go back in and review that. >> we'll look at it as part of our follow-up. >> we will appreciate getting that. is that not an odd business practice? i've never seen this type characterization viewed as being a standard operating procedure. >> it appears unusual. >> it does appear unusual and i think that it leads us, ms. cohen, to wonder if there are other unusual business practices and that are surrounding the stability of the co-ops or the lack of stability of the co-ops and the entire lack of stability of the affordable care act programs. t