ms. kaiser, if we were to exclude one or teo, do you have a preference? >> arlette to be able to -- i would like to hear from a witness to give you -- opinions based on solid expertise and experience. i would like to how well as her office " -- i do not know which one will be better qualified to do that. >> i would find that acceptable. to let the city to use. chairperson hur: we should have an exclusion or timeline but i find that exceptional as well. ok. we have the sheriff's list of experts. >> there is two additional experts under tab 14. chairperson hur: thank you. >> if i may go ahead and offer, i am happy to reserve the potential of a barbaro war of it -- witness. he can speak to that but until those arguments are made, i am happy to put him aside. >> mr. kopp? >> which witness would that be? >> i do not have a report -- i do not have the testimony. i will not -- will let mr. rattner address this. >> we object to mr. sinclair's testify in any fashion. he made public statements that were very harshly critical of sheriff mirkarimi cyrus to -- as to t

ms. kaiser sent us a fairly -- a fairly long stipulation. we look to the that over and gave them our response. end of last week. that fact was included. i did not say, if we -- the commission does not need to hear from ms. madison or ms. williams. we have not fleshed out to that extent yet. i'm not going to leave. >> i am sure you will be back appear again. -- up here again. >> we should take up the issue of witnesses by declaration. i appreciate that declarations are less burdensome for the fact finders that live testimony. that said, i am still concerned -- i do not want a situation where because it is just declaration, the parties can submit whatever they want regardless of whether it is relevant. i would like, even if you intend -- even if your view is that some of these people should come in by a declaration, i would like to know who on the list you would like to come in by declaration and why they are relevant to our proceedings. >> one of the benefits of this process of the back and forth regarding witness list and the briefing is we