ms. kaplan: no one is allowed in the room when in a decision. anyone who tells you they have some insight is someone who never went to law school. my guess is that they knew they were going to have to do this sooner or later. there was going to be a decision. certainly, at the d.c. circuit there would be great pressure. my guess is that they wanted to get it over with now. that is why you saw it. hopefully, i agree with the panel it does not speak to the merits of the plaintiffs argument. i am amazed as a supreme court advocate to hear the comments that the plaintiff's council made. even if that is what you think i cannot imagine a -- saying, i will get all the republican-appointed judges on my side. maybe i am idealistic. i have never being -- been accused of being hopelessly idealistic, but i think there are a lot of republican appointed judges that have decided for equality. it is a degree of cynicism that is a little surprising to me. ms. jawando: it only takes four justices to grant cert. in fib it should have went a different way. so i thi

ms. kaplan: you are absolutely right and a lot has been written about exactly the issue that you are identifying, that there is really no backup plan for what is going to happen. ms. stachelberg: and what is interesting about that is what impact that house on the court to realize that there really isn't a backup plan and that millions of people who are getting health insurance for the first time and are getting preventive care for the first time are going to have it snatched away from them. the justices are people, the leasing -- read the newspapers, those of us that care deeply about these issues are always kibutzing about what can we do. we do not know how much of an impact it has on the justices to realize that. we hope that it makes the difference for the justices to understand just how horrible it would be if the subsidies are struck down. mr. melber: in fairness they would say that that is a policy concern. ms. stachelberg: that is exactly right but in this case there is at least a fair reading of the statute that turns out in the right way and a much fairer reading that comes out to uphol