capitol hill as the house oversight committee is meeting on whether lois lerner waived her right to remain silent at that hearing a month ago. ms. lerner was in charge of the irs' tax-exempt organizations office. she claimed she had done nothing wrong in regards to irs targeting of conservative groups. the committee this morning will discuss whether that decision to give a statement invalidated ms. lerner's fifth amendment rights which she asserted following the statement. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> and, again, we are live on capitol hill as we await the start of this house oversight committee hearing and vote on whether lois lerner, who waived her right to remain silent at a hearing a ago of the house oversight committee, she was in charge of the irs' tax-exempt organizations office. she has since been placed on administrative leave. we expect this hearing to get under way in just a moment here live on c-span2. the u.s. senate is not in session today, they're out for their weeklong fourth of july

today voted along party lines to pass a resolution saying that irs official lois lerner waived her right to remain silent. ms. lerner was in charge of the irs tax exempt organization office and is now on administrative leave. >> the committee will come to order. the committee meets today to consider a resolution to determine whether lois lerner waived her fifth amendment privilege against self- incrimination when she made a voluntary opening statement during the committee's hearing that began on may 22, 2013. the clerk will designate the resolution. >> the resolution on the committee on oversight and government reform. >> without objection, the resolution will be considered as read and open for a minute at any point. the text has been distributed. i now recognize myself for an opening statement. we are here today to resolve something the united states has. did lois lerner waived her fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination during the committee hearing that began may 22, 2013? during the hearing that began on may 22, more than five weeks ago, i tried to be exceedingly cautious. i did not make a qu

ms. lois lerner waived in her voivity, and we are ting on the ruling of the chair. it is available format amendment. i caution never to use their five minutes. i will not limit debate. this is a markup. it is like any other markup, and i have chosen to do that so my ruling would be published and open to a vote rather than simply the procedural tapering of the chair that otherwise would happen. >> i am almost finished, thank you. on wednesday i asked every member be even the opportunity to hear directly from house counsel and pose any questions have about the legal standards and historical precedents. the chairman declined to honor my request. here's what may happen if we continue down this path. the republicans could adopt a resolution on a partisan vote. the chairman could force ms. lerner to return and director to answer questions. heard attorney will disagree with the legal basis for the resolution, and ms. lerner will continue to assert the fifth. after which the chairman could schedule a vote to hold her in content and send the entire matter to a court. after t

ms. lois lerner, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> ms. gerritson come you also receive letter from ms. lurie? >> yes, sir. >> and ms. kenney, you received a letter from lois lerner? no? >> in the materials i did, yes. >> anyone else received letters from lois lerner? okay. we have three witnesses are received letters from lois lerner. last week or two weeks ago mr. miller suggested that this was just confined to cincinnati but obviously we have conflicting statements there between what mr. miller said and what actually happened, and i think we need to get to the bottom of that. mr. eastman, can you name the treasury inspector general for tax administration officials whom to discuss your case with? >> not off the top of my head but i can provide that after the hearing. >> if you could provide those after the hearing i would appreciate it. do you know the league, if the leak of your tax information, if it included your organization donors, did it come from washington, d.c. or cincinnati, or do you know? >> i don't of any reasonably that came from cincinnati. are finally office is out in u

today voted along party lines to pass a resolution saying that irs official lois lerner waived her right to remain silent. ms lerner was in charge of the irs tax exempt organization office and is now on administrative leave. >> the committee will come to order. the committee meets today to consider a resolution to determine whether lois lerner waived her fifth amendment privilege against self- incrimination when she made a voluntary opening statement during the committee's hearing that began on may 22, 2013. the clerk will designate the resolution. >> the resolution on the committee on oversight and

ms. lois lerner washington is the comment that correct? >> yes, sir. >> ms. erritson coming also received a letter from his lerner? and mrs. kenney have you also received a letter from his lerner? now? >> in the materials i gave, yes. >> in her mouth received letters from lois lerner? mr. chairman, we have three witnesses here who received letters from lois lerner last week or two weeks ago mr. miller suggested this was defined to cincinnati. we have a conflicting statement between what mr. miller sad and what happened to win a ticket to the bottom of that. mr. eastman, can you name the inspector general for tax administration officials you expressed your case with quick >> i can provide that after the hearing. >> if you could provide this after the hearing i appreciate it. >> denote the leak of your tax information included donors, did it come from washington d.c. are sent to 90 or do you now? >> i don't have any reason to believe it came from cincinnati. arafat announces in utah in the wash and novices who we've been dealing with. >> mr. chairman, we should

ms. lois lerner waived in her activity, and we are voting on the ruling of the chair. it is available format amendment. i caution never to use their did i caution members they are free to use their five minutes. i will not limit debate. this is a markup. it is like any other markup, and i have chosen to do that so my ruling would be published and open to a vote rather than simply the procedural tapering -- tabling of the chair that otherwise would happen. >> i am almost finished, thank you. on wednesday i asked every member be even the opportunity to hear directly from house counsel and pose any questions they have about the legal standards and historical precedents. the chairman declined to honor my request. here's what may happen if we continue down this path. the republicans could adopt a resolution on a partisan vote. the chairman could force ms. lerner to return and director to answer questions. heard attorney will disagree with the legal basis for the resolution, and ms. lerner will continue to assert the fifth. after which the chairman could schedule a vote to h

. >> according to testimony given to congressional investigators, holly paz, lois lerner's assistant. ms. lerner knew about it at least as early as mid-2011, when according to the inspector general's report when she was briefed on it and essentially said we have to change these things. >> so they ruled out this phony thing, where lois lerner went to this aba meeting and got some woman lawyer, essentially her patsy to ask her a phony question, and the phony question was about the targeting, and this is all in anticipation of the report coming out in a few days and that sort of plot was also according to ms. paz, was hatched by the director of the irs? >> well, we don't know those -- we don't know those specifics. what we do know from ms. pa sfwlnz is that ms. lerner and mr. miller were talking about how to roll it out. we don't know it was going to take place at that moment in that way, but given the i.g. report was about to come out, they had a choice, roll it out in the ultimately awkward way they did, or waiting for the ig report to come down. >> here is one they missed, though. in ord

lois lerner waived her fifth amendment privileges. she did so when she chose to make a voluntary open statement -- opening statement. ms. lerner's opening statement referenced the treasury ig report and the department of justice investigation and it assertions she previously had provided -- the assertion that she had previously provided false information to the committee. she made four specific denials. those denials are at the core of the committee's investigation in this matter. she stated she had not done anything wrong, not broken any laws, not violated any irs rules or regulations, and not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee regarding areas about which committee members would have liked as for questions. indeed, committee members are still interested in hearing from her. her statement covers almost the entire range of questions we wanted to ask when the hearing began on may 22. >> you can wash the committee's entire meeting in about one hour, here on c-span. a day after the senate passed their version of an immigration the house gangf of seven representatives discuss the process o

lois lerner. before she worked at the ir shea worked at the federal election committeement that's how you got to know msried to make charges when you miss a personal loan you made to your own campaign all which you were exonerated on over and over and all the way up to the seventh circuit court of appeals you have been exonerated. during the time she was pursuing these charges against you though , al, why should we believe it was anything other than your standard sec case against a political candidate who they thought had done something funny with his money? >> i don't have any evidence that she was going after me because i was a conservative candidate. i believed it, and i saw that almost all of the other defendants at that time is when lois lerner was the chief enforcement person there, they were all conservatives. you look at the record, the christian coalition, and we had conference calls. the one common thread was that the accusations against us were all ridiculous. megyn, even if i were guilty of what she was accusing me of, and i wasn't it would have an accounting error. it would have been a mino

capitol hill as the house oversight committee is meeting on whether lois lerner waived her right to remain silent at that hearing a month ago. ms. lerner was in charge of the irs' tax-exempt organizations office. she claimed she had done nothing wrong in regards to irs targeting of conservative groups. the committee this morning will discuss whether that decision to give a statement invalidated ms. lerner's fifth amendment rights which she asserted following the statement.

ms. martinek >> i will provide that. .obert cho i have an id number for the workers. i do not have his name. ronald bell. stephen steele. lois lerner. and holly paz. in the last page of my testimony is my timeline. all the names are in there, as well as the id number. >> thank you. >> mr. thompson is recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to thank all the witnesses for taking your time to be here. it is important we figure this out. ms. kenney, i want to particularly thank you with your work -- for your work with veterans. being one myself, i appreciate that very much. i want to stay for the record what i said last time we had a hearing on this. i believe it is outrageous and inappropriate and wrong, and we must do everything we can do to fix it, to make sure it never happens again. ms. belsom, i probably will not get it exactly correct, you said something along the lines of that this needs to be investigated. those responsible need to be held accountable for any targeting of conservative groups. i agree. but i also believe that any targeting of any group, anybody that does that needs to be held accountable. it is important

lois lerner to make a statement? i encourage lois lerner to come to the oversight committee and answer questions. >> two responses to that. yes, i encourage anyone who has information -- including ms. lerner -- to come to this committee to cooperate with the justice department. i apologize if i misunderstood your question. i have to work closely and follow certain rules that have been laid out by the justice department and inspector general. >> i want to be clear -- you are going to encourage lois lerner to come in front of this committee and answer questions? >> absolutely. >> and anybody else? >> absolutely. anyone who has information about the situation needs to provide that information. >> my time is up. the gentle lady from new york is recognized. >> welcome. clearly the way that some groups seem to have been targeted is outrageous. what type of things would send up warning signs? i would like to ask about a series of activities and whether congress should clarify what is meant by that and what is considered partisan political activity. if you could answer yes or no or don't know since i have limited time. is advocating for a particular bill considered partisan political acti

lois lerner has taken the fifth and is now allowed to go on vacation. that is accountability in washington, d.c. that is unacceptable to me. what i want to leave today with ms. garrison, in your statement a lot of people in washington for get to their work for. the work for you. it is not the other way around. that is the culture of abuse of power that i see in the irs. i want to hear from you how that makes you feel, that there has not been any accountability as of yet. what would you ask us, me specifically, as a member of this panel, to do to make you feel that justice has been served? >> i think it will take a lot for the american people to ever trust the irs because of the nature. the irs has always been a scary agency. like so many of you have already committed to do a full investigation, followed through on every lead, do not stop until you get to the bottom. we need to rid this cancer. do what it is a need to do and we will be here to hold you accountable to do that. >> i appreciate that because if we do not do that, one of the things i'm concerned about with my colleagues on the other side of the aisle is we do not get to the bottom of this, i have