ms. wagner, you can't see it, but we have a debt clock on our wall. this is "the kudlow report." >> hallelujah. >> this is where free market capitalism comes into play. and it's $16.9 trillion. i'd love to talk to both of you much longer but we've got to go. i wish you all the luck in the world on the goings-on down there. many thanks. house members rob andrews and ann wagner. so is there a growth-oriented solution to the debt? let's talk, here now is former obama campaign aide, democratic strategist mark hanna and two veterans of the bush-cheney white house. robert tranum and sarah fagan. what do you think about this? short term, get that out of the way, buy six, eight weeks and then try to hammer out a reform package? >> i think that's clearly what's going to happen here. i don't know if you'll get both the debt ceiling and the government open. you may just get the debt ceiling raised. but in the final analysis, the person with the last laugh may be john boehner. he may ultimately get the grand bargain that nobody thought at the beginning of this ye