ms. waugh: yes. [laughter] mr. williams: that is what life my lawyers but i never get it. i never get one word answers. ms. waugh: i think that was certainly a big turning point. another big turning point with the election of 1874 and which for the first time since before the war grant had to deal with the democratic controlled congress. and northern people were withdrawing their support for the kind of reconstruction envisioned by congress in 1868. bringing u.s. grant to the presidency. i do think -- i hate to be the one -- our ideas about racial progress and equity were not there in the 19th century. 19th century people were racists. we can call them that. white people, most white people. the thing is edna touched on the most important factor to northern whites was free labor. they wanted african-americans in the south and the free people to have security in their person and security and the ability to move and sell their free labor. it was so simplistic and they did not really want to know t

ms. waugh: he is a great campaigner in 1872 for grant. ms. medford: but his agitation is the most important thing he had. that was his role in society. he is the leader of black america, undisputed in this part of the 19th century. he is there to agitate. he is there to bail out white men who let the freedmen's bank go down the tubes. he tries to say that any puts his own money to the bank. he is still not able to save it because they made such a mess of it. it was not african-americans who were responsible for that failure, but the white men put in charge of that bank. >> thank you very much/ mr. williams: thank you. >> what effect if any did the death of thaddeus stevens have on the outcome of reconstruction? mr. williams: joan? ms. waugh: thank you. actually thaddeus stevens, upon hearing andrew jackson was not impeached from the senate trial said the country has gone to the dogs and then he died. he was so disgusted. his day had passed by then. he was being superseded by moderate republicans already in 1868. radicaling was that republican