you, must b mubarek, out of herd the military came, in utterly incompetent, and the old defense minister, almost a mummy didn't know what they were doing, they said you, military, incompetent, out of here, then morsi came in, with his muslim brotherhood agenda, which turned out to be a complete dead end. and the people said, you, morsi, out of here. but i think there is a message in this bottle. we don't want the dead hand of mubarek anymore, the country was going nowhere, we want a government that has some kind of progressive vision for the future. we certainly don't want the incompetence of the military. a lot of people are competent, can do these jobs in government and certainly don't want the dead end of political islam right now. and so i think that is really the message, and so from an american point of view, charlie, i think our position should be, we will judge this next government, not on whether they have elections in three months, five months or six months, but whether we see them moving on all three of these tracks, do they have a new horizon? that says egypt can be a great c

kareem, you are a career diplomat under president mubarek. how dangerously polarized is egypt tonight? >> well, i think that the starting point, i think, is to comprehend the magnitude of what we've seen in egypt. i mean, the latest crisis, of course, was trigered by a protest movement that has been building up over the course of the last year and what we've seen on the streets of cairo starting from june 30 and over the course of the next few days was that over 20 million egyptians have taken to the streets against president morsi. that, i think, by all accounts has truly been an historic milestone. we may be looking at the largest political demonstration in recent history. >> but even so has the army overreached itself by supporting an elected president? >> i think in terms of the army's motivations, i think the military was extremely reluctant to take this step. they did not want the developments to reach a crisis point. i think time and again they sought to defuse the political situation by urging president morsi to reconcile with the bro

. >> peter, president obama was hammered for supporting mubarek until the very last moment. with morsi, he's been criticized for allowing him to accumulate for power. how critical is it for him and how he handles this situation? >> since morsi was ousted, you haven't seen president obama say one world in public this week. he had different events this week but he's not said one word in public about this he realizes, i think, he did get in trouble for seeming to be on morsi's side, for not doing enough to rein him in and he thinks now anything he does can only make the situation worse. it cannot look like the united states is dictating egypt. gwen: is egypt stale linchpin in the middle east in many respects? i noticed today the president called the leader of saudi arabia. how important is it that that relationship be worked out? >> it really is dynamic. egypt, as you say, it's been the main partner in the united states in the region, largely because of its peace agreement with israel forged in the carter administration but over the years they seem less and before their al own

. >> what mubarek was also removed by a coup. but he was not democratically elected. >> i find it interesting when we pick and choose talking about the rule of law because if in fact mubarek was a coup then assistance to egypt at the based upon the view that it was a coup would have been suspended. doctor, i understand, your comment we assisted the regime. to splilt the harries when you have national security interests that i think are prevailing but i think about when we choose to say that the rule of law should be observed and when not. and so it depends what your strict definition is at the end of the day. what could be the offer of reconciliation? we talked about the importance of having an all inclusive egypt, an egypt for all. what could be an offer of reconciliation that would bring the muslim brotherhood back as part of an egypt for all? >> there are two issues that are paramount and probably not doable. one there would have to be an of those in rest the brotherhood. those who have broken the law should stand trial but th

. >> well, they had that experience of a year and a half in direct governance between mubarek and morsi they didn't like it, institutional problems for them and it damaged their reputation, they don't want to go back to it, they have certain spheres of influence they need to protect or want to protect, control over defense and the national security, their secret budget and their uncataloged share this the national economy, maybe 20 percent or so of the gdp. everything else they would like to leave to somebody else to govern. they wanted a partner in the muslim brothers, they thought maybe they had one but think found out they are ineffective. >> speaking of that was it necessary for them to arrest a couple of hundred credit of the leadership of the muslim brotherhood? >> tha that is one of the major problems up front you have a message coming from the appointed president who says we are inclusive and invite them to participate and here you have the security forces raiding all of these major leaders of the muslim brotherhood, it is a mixed message which is why the obama administration is

. >> what mubarek was also removed by a coup. but he was not democratically elected. >> i find it interesting when we pick and choose talking about the rule of law because if in fact mubarek was a coup then assistance to egypt at the based upon the view that it was a coup would have been suspended. and while i understand, doctor, your comment we assisted the regime. to split the hairs when you have national security interests that i think are prevailing but i think about when we choose to say that the rule of law should be observed and when not. and so it depends what your strict definition is at the end of the day. what could be the offer of reconciliation? we talked about the importance of having an all inclusive egypt, an egypt for all. what could be an offer of reconciliation that would bring the muslim brotherhood back as part of an egypt for all? >> there are two issues that are paramount and probably not doable. one there would have to be an end to the arrest of those in the brotherhood. those who have broken the law shoul

restraint throughout the three years of the difficult transition since the 2011 houston -- oust of mubarek. thatf the primary reasons has not been more bloodshed and suffering during this transition time is the support of the united states that provided to egypt through foreign military cooperation. in light of recent events, some call for the end of these programs. let me tell you how i feel about and let you respond. first, we must maintain the strength of this relationship to enable us to assist and influence agents military leaders. second, the u.s. would be short sighted to overlook the return on investment we get from the egyptian military. .or example, canal transit intelligence corporation and counterterrorism cooperation. these are examples of benefits we have derived from this relationship. third, the egyptian military has played a stabilizing role during egypt's transition. their sustainable peace between israel and egypt -- there is sustainable peace between israel and egypt. benjamin netanyahu statement this week will say that camp david accords have been a cornerstone of peac