and so mubin, you heard that clip that she is believing that her brother is incapable of that attack,common that it is easy for the attack thors or the potential attackers to kind of hide their motives from the family? >> yeah, it depends upon what tip of attacker you are looking at. if i could give you a look at organized and disorganized. organized attacker, no sign, and mission-focused and will not distract themselves with these kinds of things. and the disorganized person generally will show the signs of the radicalization that the parents and the teachers are looking for and narrow interpretations of the islam, and declaring people as apostates and declaring verbally that something needs to be done. and if you look at the cases of the rains and the mu s -- if yo rapes and the murders of other crimes, neighbors will say, he is such a nice guy. >> and peter, to you are it is not surprise ing thing that the would not know? >> no, the fbi has looked over several the terror plots, and it is most surprising that the people who knew about them was the peers, and the peers were the least

what are the elements of making suicide terrorism something attractive and like you are saying that mubinas agreed with, outcompeting is something that will happen when you have groups trying to be noticed, but the reason it works is not just because there is a lot of groups competing, but it has to resonate. when we have policies implemented that are anti-immigrant or anti-muslim, that is when the ideology resonates. we rare making the isis job easier for them to the recruit if we alienate muslims. and after having studied terrorism for 25 years, muslim american americans are more american. and we have seen them prevent terrorist attacks than we have discussed, and this is one thing that i wanted to make clear on the show. >> and must bin, if you could h me, because there is a great argument of denigrating the muslims and make them second-class citizens and standby when they are being slaughtered and killed, that is what is going to fire up the bellies of the sympathizers, but at the same time if so much of it is bragging rights, and jockeying terror group, and a al qaeda and the subsidi

let me bring in mubin sheikh, a former undercover terrorism operative.> thank you for having me. >> i was reading about your background. give us the short version of how you ended up -- you now work in law enforcement, but how you got there. >> well i'm born and raised in toronto, canada. in the evening i would go to koran school and by day, go to public school. the koran school is is a very hard, rigid environment, and not conducive to learning properly. public school is open, gender-mixing, nurturing. this created an identity crisis for me. when i turned 18, it manifested and made me feel that i needed to get religious in order to fix my life. i ended up in india and pakistan. in pakistan i had a chance encounter with the taliban who put me on the path towards extremism. >> and this was years ago, this was prior to -- we misspoke, it was prior to isis? >> yes, this is 1995, this is the earlier iterations of extremism. it's only later on that we started to see the first manifestation of 9/11, the wars after 9/11, particularly afghanistan and iraq. and f