i'm pleased to be in conversation with invested at crystal place, can he is che, off the munich security council, a bathroom once again. it's really good to be talking to you today. of course, ukraine's nato membership is a big part of the conversation. at the summit, you have voice support for ukraine, joining nato as soon as possible. how far would you like to see the airlines go at this? some is in putting ukraine on the pots, need a membership. it's us to understand where a come from. i was in 2008 to the advisor to transfer to america. we're in 2008. we said, this is not the right moment. ukraine is not ready for it. the people are not in support. so in 2008, they didn't get membership. today the, the situation is totally different. and ukraine is the people are behind their application. they want to be part of nato. and to i think we, we have to go as far as we can. what does that mean? it means that they cannot become member right now, because due to the obligation to spend by their side, this withdrawal of the nature lines directly into the war. but this and some it, and i hope this will

again, he is che, off the munich security council. and that's always good. it's really good to be talking to you today. of course, ukraine's nato membership is a big part of the conversation. at the summit, you have voice support for ukraine, joining nato as soon as possible. how far would you like to see the airlines go at the summit in putting ukraine on the pots need a membership? it's, you have to understand where a come from. i was in 2008 to the advisor to tense. the america, we're in 2008. we said this is not the right moment. ukraine is not ready for it. the people are not in support. so in 2008 they didn't get membership. today the, the situation is totally different. and ukraine is the people are behind their application. they want to be part of nato. and to i think we, we have to go as far as we can. what does that mean? it means that they cannot become member right now because due to the and obligation to spend by their side, this withdraw the may 2 lines directly into the war. but this and some it, and i hope this which does happen, can invite u

can he is che, off the munich security council. and that's always good. it's really good to be talking to you today. of course, ukraine's nato membership is a big part of the conversation. at the summit, you have voice support for ukraine joining they to as soon as possible. how far would you like to see the airlines go at this? some is in putting ukraine on the pots need a membership. if you have to understand where a come from, i was in 2008 to the advisor to tense. the america, we're in 2008. we said this is not the right moment. ukraine is not ready for it. the people are not in support. so in 2008, they didn't get membership. today the, the situation is totally different. and ukraine is the people are behind their application. they want to be part of nato, and to i think we, we have to go as far as we can. what does that mean? it means that they cannot become member right now because due to the and obligation to spend by their side, this withdraw the may 2 lines directly into the war. but this and some it. and i hope this which does happen, can invit

except for rob and me and a few other people, the whole world thought, all these people at the munich security council -- conference, it was only can a last two weeks. he went down there and said, we are here, we are here. he got his country to go with him. he got the world to go with him. if he would not have done it, putin would not have just invaded ukraine, there was no stopping him. remember, it wove people -- will people from their slumber about what it means to be a democracy. as hard as it is, that is still there in our psyche. so, those kinds of things,a nd people having moments of kindness in reaching out, seeing each other again, whether it is high school sporting events, parades being at things now, where i see tons of people, that is going to change things. that makes people see each other and have an opportunity to debate and see someone he really did not think he wanted to see again but maybe there ok. those kinds of things we have to get back into that if we are going to have any kind of a democracy in a civil society. those are the things that give me hope as i look at what is going o