murkowski: thank you. senator heinrich. mr. heinrich: thank you, madam chair. it's great to see you, secretary. i want to start by thanking you for your trip to new mexico. i think it meant a lot to the folks at whip. it certainly meant a lot to the folks at los alamos. i know sandy is looking forward to getting to connect with you at some point as well. i think one thing you've heard from multiple perspectives this morning is the importance of safety and, in my conversations with you, i want to thank you for your commitment to that. because whether it's los alamos, whip, hanford, all these places, worker safety has to be number one. as you know, los alamos, which i believe you visited in may, has long been the nation's center of excellence on plutonium research. is it correct that this budget, f.y. 2018, the request maintains los alamos' central role in the nation's plutonium mission and that it's your intent to stay on schedule and meet the statutory requirements for production? mr. perry: yes. mr. heinr

now you've got senator murkowski who said it. if she wanted to meet with you tomorrow, who would you bring with you on the democratic side? i saw elizabeth warren says all democrats should back a single payer health care system in the next two elections. that doesn't sound like you're on the same page when it comes to doing something in the middle. >> i think what lisa murkowski has been saying and what i have been saying and many democrats believe this, let's get an idea of what the problems are and work to solve them for the health care system. when i go home and talk to people, they aren't saying any quote words, i'm really worried if i lose my health care, my daughter won't get the coverage she needs and worried about my parent in the nursing home. you know all of the things mem are scared about. let's listen to what they want, affordable quality health care that will not be used politically by any party but make sure they've got certainty in their world. if we sat down with that premise and started working with each other, i

the president sitting between senator collins and murkowski. senat senat senator murkowski, trump making a comment that well, it is great to pass it but if we don't, oh well. we have seven years worth of clips and promises that they're going to get i want done. until recently, until the president was e lelectelected. they never thought they would o have to and they still don't know how to, we'll see what happens. >> i was walking out with senator collins. the president has a problem in understanding the concept. she said in her respect, the president has not been here in washington and does not understand how to make the case. not that he's necessarily making the wrong case, he's not making the case in the normal way these senators expect from the white house. you saw some perplex faces that eric was describing. these republican senators were all talking to are a little bit confused by the president's statement, maybe if it all falls apart that republicans can just blame democrats ahead of 2018 and 2020. most of them don't buy the arguments tha

i want to try and track down senator susan collins and lisa murkowski to ask them about the planned parenthood provisions. it looks like this does defund planned parenthood that is something they had previously said might be a nonstarter. so, again, just trying to gather reaction initially here in the first hours after this has been released, but so far i would say more skeptics and more potential problems than there is praise. >> and, casey, interestingly, on the conservative side, as well

what is lisa murkowski thinking when she hears this? it's not a distraction he could have spent his day doing something more useful. this looks like i want to strap a suicide vest on and do it in a way that will offend any thinking woman in america. >> and man. right? >> yeah, i think so. they're indefensible. i think from a personal nature as well, not because i know mika, but because i have a mom, a wife, and i have three sisters and a wife and a daughter. you can't be partisan in a -- this is where republicans have to stand up. >> how would you even be partisan? who would defend this? >> i think the issue -- i think part of the issue with this, you have some people on the left who criticize everything he does no matter what it is. so when you criticize this -- >> we criticize everything that your old boss chris christie does. >> that's the point. to be credible we have to criticize where criticism is warranted and right now it's obviously warranted in this place. i agree with john. it's derailed where the party can get together. heal

to chairman lisa murkowsky, chairman lamar alexander, chairman mike simpson, all the distinguished members of congress and honored guests who are here. welcome to a new era of american energy. a new era in american energy dominance. and welcome to an era defined by the pro energy leadership of president donald trump. we're gathered here today as further evidence of president donald trump knows that affordable abundant and reliable energy is the foundation of american prosperity. in fact since today one of the administration president trump has taken decisive action to unleash the unlimited potential of america's energy resources and we're just getting started. in one of his first acts, president trump approved the keystone and dakota pipeline and the dakota pipeline is up and running and the keystone isn't far behind. under the leadership of this president, cole mines are actually reopening in america. cole miners are going back to work and the war on coal is over. president trump's been rolling back the clean power plan, he's opening the way for more offshore drilling and president donald

take care. >> senator murkowski right there. let's listen in to the left-hand side of the screen, where marco rubio is being surrounded by quite a scrum of reporters. take a listen. >> the individual market is the one that we need more certainty on. it begins by getting an accurate baseline of where we are today, not the numbers from a year and a half ago which is what they are going off of which are obsolete at this point. their baseline is there's only going to be a 20% increase in premiums in the individual market. we know in some places it's as high as 70. they are way off. this needs to be adjusted. hopefully they will get to that. >> reporter: can this still be done by the august recess at this point? >> maybe. certainly that would certainly be a goal. >> reporter: what do you expect out of the white house? >> i don't know. obviously we will talk about health care. we will see, i imagine they are probably hopefully in listening mode. they will want to kind of hear some of the different constituencies and concerns about dif

let's, please, get it right. >> reporter: senator murkowski not the only ones raising questions. and on some positive note if you want to take one from the cbo score, it included the senate bill would have $321 billion in deficit savings over the course of a ten-year period. that's more than $2 hubbe00 bil from what the house had. they have to match what the house had in deficit reduction to move the bill forward in the u.s. senate. that means majority leader mitch mcconnell has about $200 billion to work with, money to hand out, perhaps more medicaid spending for senators worried for medicaid-expansion states that aren't happy with the gradual phaseout. any number of different issues -- opioid funding, those things. that's something mitch mcconnell can work with. the question as they try and target a vote by the end of the week, can they get 50 votes? as of monday, as of tuesday morning, they're not there yet, guys. >> thank you very much. >>> the white house also conceding repeal and replace is in deep trouble. a west wing official admitting last night, "we're right on the thre

you had lisa murkowski and susan collins. susan collins has been a pretty hard no on this because of the medicaid rollback. they go home, they talk to the people in their district. it's probably going to be a long week for a lot of them hearing from their people is how do you cobble a bill together that appeases both rand paul, who want complete repeal of obamacare, and susan collins, who has elements of obamacare she wants in her state. what does that bill look like and how do you get there? >> you just don't, mike barni e barnicle. ure nev-- you're never going to. you keep susan collins without losing the freedom caucus and other people in the house. >> this is the better care wr k reconciliation act. that's funny in its own term. after speaking to several staff members yesterday, more then a few of them republican, is that the president of the united states in this, the hallmark of his administration is a nonparticipant. >> they told him to stay out of the way, right? >> yes. and that is astounding when you think of it. th

we serve our paschi and susan collins -- lisa murkowski and susan collins.hey do have very different needs here. their needs are sometimes at cross purposes. changes that the conservatives want to see -- they want to see that states have had more chances to opt out, giving people guaranteed benefits and insurance plans. they want to make it so it is a lot easier for states to say, here is a bare-bones plan, it doesn't attempt for pre-existing conditions, doesn't protect for charging more, or covering maternity at all. they say there are young and healthy people who went cheap -- want cheap plans. they want to make those available. but that makes other people really worried because the more cheap plans that are out there, the more likely it is that the entire insurance market will have less protected plans. there are changes that could be made over the weekend. they are changes that could be made next week. there is a balancing act that has to be done by mcconnell's office to make sure they don't go too far to the right or too far to the left. the other thing

i'm going to put you on the list and lisa murkowski on the list.g senator collins on the list. can you name -- it's make believe, they don't have to go to any meetings but who would be the gang of eight on health care in the senate? >> there's so many people. >> i only need three. >> well, you know obviously you want to have senator murray and senator alexander involved because they're the heads of the committee. >> okay. >> or perhaps they'd be running a different process. people that have traditionally been involved in these kinds of issues senator shaheen is a personal favorite of mine and then there's some great people who are -- who understand this issue like senator mccain. we have got, you know, claire mccaskill. >> i only needed eight. >> i can give you many. >> but do you know how many americans would root for you if eight senators from both parties -- the kinds of people you're talking about, people with a record of bipartisanship and a whole lot of women by the way were on that list, i think women may have been behind averting the last s

the real question is what will happen with moderates like susan collins of maine and senator murkowski of alaska who haven't committed one way or the other. there is a lot of question at this point. he does haven't 50 but there is confidence within his circles that he will be able to get there. >> glor: it's mckowski, collins, heller, flake. mitch mcconnell has to do this dance with everyone. >> he does. the question is what are people's bottom lines. it's important to look at the bill in context of what has been the republican divide on healthcare. you've had the moderates saying they should do more to protect medicaid. this has deeper medicaid than the house bill over time because the house bill over time put medicaid on a growth rate connected to how fast medical costs grow. now it's just inflation, and inflation grows more slowly than medical costs. so it's a deeper cut to medicaid but the cuts don't begin for longer. you're getting more plausible political denight club but less policy concession. le why if you said you wanted to protected medicaid that would be your bargain i don'

they were met by murkowski's aide, kevin sweeney. >> senator murkowski is very deliberate. senator murkowski -- she has shown us in the past she wants to do what is right for alaska, but she needs to know exactly what it is that she is doing. she wants to know what the impact is going be on alalaska. >> it is going to kill people. it is not hard to figure out. this bill has actuariries attacd to it that show the only way these number's come about to the cbo is if people die early. amy: arrested 40 people on -- during wewednesday's protest, police arrested 40 people on mimisdemeanor charges of unlawfl crowding, obstructing,g, or incommoding. president trump's ban on refugees and travelers from six muslim-majority countries will partially take effect this evening after the supreme court said it will examine the constitutionality of the order. the ruling will affect some travelers from libya, iran, somalia, sudan, syria, and yemen. beginning at 8:00 p.m. eastern time, foreign nationals from those countries who can't show a credible claim of a bona fide relationship with a pers

lisa murkowski, rob portman, shelly moore capito, these are not moderates.servatives, but what they're indicating at least right now is some concern about what impact the bill is going to have on their constituents. lisa murkowski understands that in alaska there are thousands and thousands of people who depend on the affordable care act for their health care. shelly moore capito understands there are hundreds of thousands of people in west virginia who benefit from medicaid expansion so they can get treatment for opioid addiction. so they are in a position where they're susceptible to changing their votes because they actually care what impact the bill will have on their constituents. all these other republican members of the united states senate right now are demonstrating a commitment to ideology and giving tax cuts to the wealthy over the interests of their constituents. >> all right. we'll take a break. it's extraordinary. i spoke to a member of president trump's team last night who said we need to focus on our agenda, our agenda is what is winning thes

lisa murkowski of alaska. dead silent. then they were saying, by the way, i was against that bill. what do you make of that? >> not exact it will examples of history making courage. i think they knew if it would get pulled, they should at least get credit for being against and it i think they want to be in a position to get something for their yes vote when we come back after the break. the danger here is that the expectations are so low, 22 million people, that's a humanitarian catastrophe. if they come back and have a cbo score that says they only uninsure 15 million people, that those senators you mention condition say they've gotten a victory. we have to remind people that the republicans, including those senators, promised they would replace obamacare with something better. not something worse. the expectations game will be really important. >> i want to get your opinion on this. she seemed to have a willness to work democrats in a genuinely collaborative fashion. >> you still have folks had your choouks want to repeal obamacare root and branch. you have other folks saying may

senator murkowski: we need to do that. let me switch gears a little bit. we have been talking about opioid and addiction but let's talk about another issue. alaska is one of those states that has not only enacted medical marijuana statutes but we through ballot initiative have allowed for a broader sale and use of marijuana that is regulated as we would regulate alcohol. in the state we think the regulatory regime is a fairly strong one and consistent with the memorandum. now, that memorandum suggests the federal government will not get in the way of states which maintain strong regulatory regimes. i had some correspondence with the prior attorney general, attorney general lynch, relating to this but the fact is the banking sector is still closed to those in the marijuana business making it difficult for states to access paper trail to ensure those in compliant. are we recently heard that postal inspectors believe they can seize state tax payments sent by mail from people in the marijuana business. now i understand that d.o.j. wants to eliminate the approp

especially for the moderate senators like susan collins and lisa murkowski.would deplan parenthood through medicaid reimbursements. just as it is tough for them, conservatives, it is tough for them for it to stay in the bill. you can see this being a last-minute point of contention for passing the final health care bill. >> benji, maybe we'll talk tomorrow again after looking at the article. that will do it for me at this hour. up next, "velshi & ruhle." see you back at the top of the hour at 1:00 p.m. eastern. eye drop approved for both the signs and symptoms of dry eye. one drop in each eye, twice a day. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort or blurred vision when applied to the eye, and unusual taste sensation. don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. remove contacts before using xiidra and wait at least 15 minutes before reinserting. chat with your eye doctor about xiidra. and you're about in to hit 'send all' on some embarrassing gas. hey, you bought gas-x®! unlike antacids, gas-x ® relieves pressure and bloating fast. huh,

tech to lisa murkowski just now in the hallway. holdout from alaska.hat's in this bill. she is waiting to see like everybody else. she is still very skeptical. they are going to have a hard , to have that is out the moderates stay on board and conservatives all through next week. there will probably be a lot of forced trading if they bring us to the floor. assume those in the leadership must be frustrated by ?ow this is playing out how are they reacting to the way this is playing out, and other any indications as to what the senate draft is going to be palpable -- --you are telling me about embre the are washing their hands clean. they got us in the senate -- ok game on the senate, let's get this thing. the fact that as stephen said, senator murkowski is holding out -- think about it. they're going to have to review a major piece of legislation in one week -- the midterms could reside in a one-week span. that's the concern you are hearing from the likes of people like senator murkowski, also senator rammed paul. those types of more conservative, libert

is it murkowski or conservatives like cruz? susan: we saw dean heller from nevada is the only republican in a blue state up for re-election next year who has probably come up so far the harshest against it although he gave himself room to go for a yes at the end. on one hand, you have conservatives who say this is obamacare light, not what we came here to do and then you have moderates like susan collins of maine and lisa murkowski of alaska who have other issues with the bill including the proposal to block planned parenthood reimbursements so how mcconnell skins that cat to get the various parties to hold hands and vote for the bill will be tricky. how much do conservatives have to say, i don't really like the bill the way it is, maybe give them amendments, get to say they improve the bill and get to yes in the end. robert: what about pre-existing conditions? this was the big hangup when it was being written in the house. how does it look in the senate? sarah: it would not allow pre-existing continues to be treated differentl

they're republicans in name only, you have susan cal lynnes and murkowski they haven't come out as ay have their own moderate issues. you have several other senators either saying i need to read the bills i haven't read the bill or they're saying it's too early to vote. >> murkowski made some comments that suggest to me unless x happens i won't vote for it. i can't see x happening. >> a lot of the people they have to placate is about medicaid and who wants to take away the health care from their constituents and can you survive the next re-election bid. iffure opponent says you took away health care from millions in the state, how do you explain that? that's the thing i don't think republican versus yet to figure out. >> and the other issue, you showed this at the top, you go back 20 years, three times the party if power has taken a pass as the health care system. the party could pay a price. >> they can pay a huge price. you did a piece that showed the price the clinton administration went after health care. the obama administration took a hit. i think they're much better off politi

. >> saying quote do you know what the health care bill looks like republican senator lisa murkowski asked reporters, because i don't. murkowski was not alone on the republican side including the governor from utah one of the 13 members on the working group. >> i haven't seen the bill, it's becoming increasingly apparent in the last few days even though we thought we were going to be in charge of writing a bill within this working group. it's not being written by us. it's apparently written by a small handful of staffers for members in the senate. so, if you're frustrated by the lack of transparency in the process, i share your frustration. i share it wholewholeheartedly. >> are you satisfied with the health care right now? >> no, no. >> why not? >> he used to complain with the democrats on the affordable care act. now we're doing the same thing. >> let's dig deeper into this. capitol hill reporter from the hill, molly hooper. molly, good to talk to you this morning. what are the biggest concerns you're hearing about from members of the senate republican caucus? >> you're hearing peo

at least get their support so you have someone out there like a murkowski or susan collins out there saying something nice about the bill. yes, it has problems, but this is a work in progress, we're working towards something, maybe bring, you know, a senator from west virginia, for example, along to help. >> you're talking about joe manchin. >> right. >> shannon, let me ask you, is this part of my sorkin-obsessed political fantasy life, that a by partisan bill could come to pass, if republicans, if mitch mcconnell says, hey, i did my best, but at the end of the day, as you and i talked about friday night, i pulled more out to bring around cruz and paul and lee, and i lost collins and murkowski, then i put more in and i lost all my conservatives. could you see him throwing up his hands and saying, you know, fine, let's see if a gang of eight can get something done? is there any will on either side for a gang of eight compromise on improving what we have right now which is obamacare? >> if there is, it's going to take a while. it's not going to happen overnight. it's not going to happe

but if susan collins grabs the other or murkowski or portman. >> with more seniority.gs can get difficult. the other thing i've heard is there's a rumbling that they're not going to do conference committee. they're going topaz it right back to the house and have the house pass it word for word which is of course happened after the death of ted kennedy. all of the sudden you're making the republicans walk the plank again. >> i can see that happening but that's crazy. the so-called moderates over there to eat this kind of medicaid expansion and the restructuring of traditional medicaid, are they really going to go along with that? >> there is a window here for the public to have the debate it hasn't had. hopefully that will happen. people with talk to their represents. jennifer rubin, joan walsh, thank you for joining me. that is all in this evening. >> ton an admission 41 days in making. president trump says he has no tapes of his conversations with jim comey. but not everyone thinks this is the end of the story. the bluff that launched a special council, raising more q

senator murkowski that is moderate. planned parenthood is in the bill.it's not clear if it will pass with senate rules. it's in limbo. but susan collins said she's concerned about that it's absolutely not a necessary part of the bill in her words. >> shepard: in reading through here, there's what amounts to a trillion-dollar cut in capital gains taxes. mainly on rich investors. it appears that that is being made up for how? >> not totally clear yet. there's different funding being moved around. there's a lot in there still being picked through. >> shepard: yeah, there is. there's a lot more to be heard on this, especially from susan collins and lisa murkowski. we'll wait for that. the rub is, if you appease the more conservatives, the tea party wing, the freedom caucus, you lose more moderates. what is the compromise that might get them to 51 votes? >> i'm so glad you mentioned the freedom caucus. that's the 30-something house members that are conservative. they did the same thing when the bill was in the house. they said no, we're not going to vote for

murkowski is a deliberate senator. and she has shown it in the past that she wants to do what is right for alaska, but she needs to know exactly what it is that she is doing. she wants to know the impact this will on alaskans. >> it is goi to kill people will stop it is not hard to figure it out. this bill already has actuaries attached to it that show the only way these members, about through the cbo is that people die early. amy: during wednesday's protests, police arrested 40 people on misdemeanor charges of unlawful crowding, obstructing . meanwhile, activists disability rights group adapt launched a two-day-long sit-in at the office of colorado republican senator cory gardner, staging a die-in and chanting "better to go to jail than die without medicaid." 10 activists with the adapt were arrested on thursday. for more, we go to washington, d.c., where we are joined by stephanie woodward, an organizer with adapt. video went viral of her being ripped from her wheelchair. she has been arrested while protesting 14 tim

could it be susan collins, lisa murkowski, a wild card. flake from arizona, cory guardner from colorado, one vote could sink it. that's one thing to keep an eye on. and the politics of this. if republican dozen succeed in passing this, if they succeed in implementing it, take a look at this. the history of how parties take a price for touching health care. three times in the last 20 years. in the '90s. democrats had the advantage in our nbc news poll, a 48-point advantage when bill clinton came to office over republicans. then they proposed what they called hillary care. they lost 39 points. it came all the way down to 9. publics won the congress. then barack obama came to office. his advantage was 31 points. obamacare and it dropped down 7. this is our brand new poll. look at these numbers. democrats had an advantage of 7 points at the end of last year's election. republicans put their plan out. that democratic vac more than doubles. it jumped to 17 points. what is the advantage? if you're the party in office, you touch health care, democ

his colleague lisa murkowski was very impressed today. let's watch. >> would you be a pro possibility to make sure we start over? >> absolutely. the congress of the united states, whether you're a republican or democrat in the house or the jat, shouldn't we all be working together as a part of who we are as americans? we said no, we won't talk to democrats about a fix. we should be working on the other side of the aisle. >> that's the very impressive lisa murkowski. >> we're willing to talk about making sure that we deep premiums low. we're willing to talk about making sure people with pre-existing conditions are covered. but i'm not going to negotiate from a low point. i'm not going to negotiate, do we cut medicaid by $800 billion or $600 billion. that's not acceptable. >> today speaker paul ryan said the stake for republicans couldn't be higher. >> newt gingrich said if republicans get health care wrong, they lose the house. do you feel there's that much at stake? >> i feel it is the biggest signature issue we have. and it is the bigges

paul's of the world, will the bill be conservative enough for them and moderate nenough for the murkowskis of the world? what are you hearing? >> that is how the compromise. both sides walk ago way saying i'm not entirely happy but got some of what i want. it's an art that we're kind of not really used to seeing very much anymore. having said that, we are talking about a compromise amongst republicans. this is just trying to get this through the senate with republican votes. so you're right. and the question is grog oing t even from people i'm talking to who have been a party to these closed-door talks, they haven't actually seen what it looks like in black in white, in legislative text, which matters. a comma, an and or a but can change the whole means of what something is supposed to do legislatively and legally. that's why even those who think that they're probably in a good place are holding their breath and not really sure. but i think you're right. that the conservatives, even though we're definitely watching the moderates, like susan callens, like lisa murkowski and even rob portman

lisa murkowski, while she does not know when it started, i will tell you when.he day after barack obama was inaugurated or the day of the inauguration, when mcconnell said that he was going to try and make this a one term president, and they all told their constituents, when the health care came out, not to sign up for it. the health-care bill, aca, what have worked if everyone had gotten into a pool. republicans who are complaining it, and voted against rallied and got these people all riled up to go against it, and now they are seeing they will be .uffering they're having townhall meetings, rallying for it. they voted against their own and i think the democrats should negotiate with the republicans. not only the democrats, it should be doctors, hospitals, the insurance companies, medical -- everyone should get into this. do not know if you -- you do not know who has the right solution includeou everyone. they need to talk and figure out what the problems are. we all of the executives of the insurance companies get millions a year, which is far and above what t

case in point, senator murkowski. take a listen. >> today i don't have enough information, i don't have enough data in terms of the impact to my state to be able to vote in the affirmative. so i'm trying to get the information. this is big stuff. so making sure that we get it right is something that i have said is an imperative. i don't think it's asking too much to say give us the time to fairly and critically analyze these numbers. these numbers that we're talking about, these are men and women. these are our families that are being impacted. so let's please get it right. >> you've got senators kind of fighting for their political life there in some way, shape, or form. at some point they would have to answer to their vote. then you've got the white house coming out attacking the cbo's analysis of the bill saying that the cbo has consistently proven it cannot accurately predict how health care legislation will impact insurance coverage. in 2013, the cbo estimated that 24 million people would have coverage under obam

. >> in one those of senator murkowski here's what she had to say what's happening with the senate billgot a problem with it. if i'm not going to see a bill before we have a vote on it, that's just not a good way to handle something that is as significant and important as health care. >> and kouran, murkowski in alaska, she cares about planned parenthood and the medicaid expansion as well. what do you hear coming from her and is that something you're hearing from other senators who are in those medicaid states? >> the medicaid expansion states you saw a number of republican governors join this bipartisan letter this week saying you can't pass the bill the way it is. eight a terrible mod, it wouldn't work in our state. pay attention to medicaid provisions as well. you also have murkowski is a senator from a rural state who have a special interest in this because they rely on federally funded programs so much more than others do but i think there's just, i mean, the reason she just gave there, there is an argument to be made about hypocrisy because the republicans complained with democrat

because even if you turn to yes, there's still the potential of moderates like lisa murkowski and susan collins could be no. >> everyone expect this is current draft for there to be significant changes and the majority leader and the staff rolling it out, they said this is the discussion draft, this is the first draft, there will be significant changes. we'll have to continue having a negotiation. everyone will have to give. that's the only way you can get at least 50 out 52 republicans. the only way to get to yi is if everyone is willing to give some and the keys are focusing on principles that bring us together. two principles that bring us together are the keys to getting agreement. number one, lowering premiums, if premiums go down it's a win for everyone -- a win for conservatives and moderates and the men and women we represent but number two another principle that ufies everyon is state flexibility. letting states have far more flexibility. so for example with medicaid letting each individual state letting plans care for the most vulnerable. letting a more moderate governor like

i saw a quote from lisa murkowski. i'm not going to vote for a bill.e for a bill she's not read. everyone will get a chance to read the bill but there has to be some time when people get together and try to drive a consensus and that's what's going on right now. they obviously verbatim reached that point. once they do reach a point where they feel comfortable, they'll put the bill out there. if the democrats allow it, they'll go through a committee process. if they threaten to shut things down, what does that mean? you probably have to bypass the committee because they won't get committees to form because the democrats will block it, so they could be complicit in not getting the bill more light of day. >> there is this argument that there are 52 republican senators and in order to get both the ted cruzes and mike lees on board with something and the lisa murkowskis and susan collins of the world, the negotiations do need to be done behind closed doors with only republicans watching. >> yeah, that's not a good argument. it's an argument based upon hypoc

senator murkowski, republican of alaska, expresses what most of us feel. how could we even answer an honest, legitimate question from someone we represent when we can't see the measure that's being produced by the senate republicans? senator jerry moran, republican of kansas said last month, quote, i want the committees of jurisdiction to hold hearings. bring the experts who know about health care from across the country. bring the constituents to tell us their stories. then i want every senator, all 100 of us, to have the chance to offer amendments. thank you, senator moran. i agree with you. that is how the senate is supposed to work, but that is not how it's working now. let me tell you what some of the groups have said about this republican effort to repeal the affordable care act. you expect, oh, it's a partisan comment from a partisan senator. these are nonpartisan groups. the american heart association. what did they say? the house bill would seriously erode preexisting condition protections, including for patients suffering from card crow vascular

i want to try and track down senator susan collins and lisa murkowski to ask them about the planned parenthood provisions. it looks like this does defund planned parenthood that is something they had previously said might be a nonstarter. so, again, just trying to gather reaction initially here in the first hours after this has been released, but so far i would say more skeptics and more potential problems than there is praise. >> and, casey, interestingly, on the conservative side, as well as on the moderate -- moderate republican side, ron johnson telling our cameras that he does not call this obamacare repeal. i'm an accountant, businessman, not repealing obamacare, what he and rand paul seemed to be talking about. at the white house, peter alexander, the president has just spoken, he was much less involved in this. taking sort of a back seat, maybe mike pence and others, on his behalf. but he is now going to be selling it hard. >> i think you're right. i think tactically we have seen a difference in terms of the way this us w the white house. the first go round, they had a series of meetin

if all eyes are potentially on murkowski right now. the democrats talking to her behind the scenes? are you talking to her behind the scenes to fry to convince her not to go along with this. >> of course we talk to our republican colleagues. we don't know, you know, senator murkowski is not among the 13, senator kolbs is not among the 13. there's a lot of other senators in this mix, republin senators. an heller is running for re-election in a state that went for hillary clinton. there's senator lee who is sticking with rand paul. there's a whole bunch of -- senator portman who is in a state where his governor is saying, don't vote for this. there are republican governors who expanded medicaid are saying, if you're getting rid of that don't vote for it, to their senators. this -- there's more in play than you might think. >> on another topic, you've been talking a lot about mike pence, essentially warning democrats to be careful what they wish for. you call pence a zealot, you told the international business times in an interview, he's

. >> murkowski and collins don't favor the planned parenthood language. on the right, you have paul cruz and mike lee who think this bill doesn't go for that enough. the process has been behind closed doors, totally in secret. even the republicans who were supposed to be writing the bill hadn't seen it. it appears mitch mcconnell hashed it out almost entirely. the editorial board written -- remember when obamacare was written hastily behind closed doors so the democrats could jam an unpopular health care bill through congress? almost when this showed they didn't care what was in it and that they had betrayed the trust of the american people? republicans are hoping you don't remember or that you are willing to forget now that the shoe is on the other foot. chris, will there be a price to pay for the secrecy by which republicans wrote this bill? >> that all depends on the quality of the bill. i think part of this issue especially with respect to the house, this is what we've seen so far, is that there's absolutely no question republicans had a very difficul

lisa murkowski of alaska. ron johnson of wisconsin. people who are very supportive of repeali ining obamacare, but don't think they're ready for a vote now. is there something to that? >> this is a process that senator mcconnell worked through. obviously he'll call the vote just like the speaker in the house. we'll keep making sure we get there. end of the day, the results matter. not necessarily the process. we want to fulfill the promise republicans are making, that the president has been making we're going to lower premiums and improve access for americans and get it done the right way. as this process moves forward, when the votes are there, the senate will call the vote. >> reporter: how deep into the policy and the problems that some of his fellow republicans have is the vice president getting? how much is he trying to problem-solve on the policy to get those votes where they need to be? >> i think working with senators on both sides, in terms of the caucus and where they are and what their specific issues may be. as a former gov