the cost of extending the expiring provisions announce -- musto, including the interest costs that would result, amounts to about $5 trillion over the coming decade. so the choice of the congress about those policies is much larger and impact, potentially, than the stated target deficit reduction of this committee. >> all right. so let's say we want to reduce the deficit by 6.2, i put one, 6.2, let's say, for example. >> okay. >> what would the composition of that reduction be if we reduce it, deficit, somewhat parallel, tandem, proportionate to the cost of additional 5 trillion? >> bucks i guess it would just -- >> most of the extra $5 trillion under your scenario comes from a reduction in taxes. so if one wanted to offset that, that's what you're suggesting then one would need to raise, tax revenue, through some other channel. i mean, i think i understand the purpose for this hearing, talking about the history of debt and how we got here. i think your extended that a bit in the future look at what policy changes would get us with certain place. but the fundamental question for you is n