is anybody, madame president, that find themselves nabhan participating could be at a disadvantage. -- not participating could be at a disadvantage. in effect, we are taxing small business owners to pay banks to lend to small businesses. even worse, madame president, the government's equity in president -- equity investments would be subordinated to all existing debt. and if the bank fails, existing creditors would get paid before the government and taxpayers would again take a hit. i believe the american taxpayers have lost their appetite for bank bailouts. host: senator shelby on the floor last week. steve verdier, the executive vice president of the independent community bankers association. what is your reaction? guest: he covered an awful lot of ground there, but we believe this is a a a voluntary program and the strong gains that are able to use it to will be very helpful to the community banks. i think in response to concerns like he raised, the program has been carefully crafted so that you really will live create the kind of problems that the head of the prize. host: the pres