seriously to be one of the very few fortunate people to have experienced for one thing, the flying the nafa twin autor cleveland, the one with the ice bolted to the tail, rode through a tail plane icing stall, and it was an experience i'll never forget, because when i got snookered into this situation, the airplane bunted over, and it was a negative g-maneuver. we went from blue over brown to all brown like this. i pulled 100-pounds with my left hand to recover from that. that wasn't the record for the program. the record pull was a guy using two hands, pulled 161 pounds. and yes, we can't simulate that in the simulator. i have wished since that day that everyone who flies an airplane even remotely susceptible to tail plane icing could have the experience i had. back in 2002, 2003, i was one of the very fortunate people to get to fly the upset recovery training program in new mexico involving an early model leer programmed to create upsets. the g-onset wasn't as abrupt as the tail plane icing experience. i just wish there was some way to get the funding back for that program, and/or to get