there were many military atrocities and if you like, to get provocative about it the psychology of nan jing is like the library of -- in that a lot of soldiers in hostile territory who often couldn't see the difference between civilians and guerrilla fighters and so on, they were undisciplined brutalized by their own officers and often found themselves in a position where the safest thing to do was to shoot everybody. that can quickly escalate to of violence. again what we were talking about earlier with the senior officers not really an proper control of the middle ranking ones i think played a role as well. even though the image of the japanese army were entirely correct when it came to the russo-japanese war when they treated the p.o.w.s very well so that discipline often left a lot to be desired in the second world war. so you did have these enormous massacres and raping and looting on a vast scale and so on but it's not quite the same thing. to be a victim of this is equally oppressive but it's not the same as guessing people are shooting people because they don't have a right to live.