another issue, i heard you speak about adding to the narrative and changing the narrative. i think everyone agrees we should add to the narrative. when you talk about changing the narrative, that sounds orwellian to me. >> changing the narrative implies that the questions being asked change or because the questions of a new generation are often different, the narrative changes. it is not that you are trying to become orwellian, it is that generations ask a different question. generations of women are asking the question, "what role did we play?" we didn't sit around making socks. what else did we do? because they are asking the questions, and this scholarship is there, the documents are there, we find the information and the narrative changes. it is added to. it is not just the narrative that women are doing this thing or that thing. you understand? that is what i mean by changing the narrative. expanding the narrative means as we know those things we make space for even more questions to be asked. when there are more questions getting answered, our narrative continues to e

that's narrative one. the second narrative you hear on the republican side and the conservative media is goat neil

the larger collection of narratives are narratives taken in the 1930s. the majority of those individuals were christian but we have do some there that were people islamic enslaved people. >> i don't if you have heard of the nation in brazil that lasted for 8-10 years. i don't know the entire story. >> absolutely. she is referring to -- >> in jamaica nana of the maroon led a large scale rebellion and had a treaty with the british to stay and live in isolation. she is referring to runaway communities where people escaped isolation. i would argue we have the same he here. there is more work to be done. particularly looking at the swamps. it was a slave where enslaved people ran away and lived in isolation. there are a few places off the coast of georgia where this happened. you don't see it as much in the caribbean. >> thank you for this wonderful narrative, great experience. the soul value can be expressed by those who try to runaway. i was wondering if you can elaborate on this. the implications that those with high soul value only escaped? >> i used the

the left openly believes that openly believes that narrative is everything, that narrative establishes truth. there's no truth. who has the power to establish the narrative? so what i see as hopeful is that trump is actually one of them. he's an old democrat. he gets that, and i think that if we start to, if that starts to spread and we're able to tell stories like that, we may come back. there may be an opening for us, even in mainstream hollywood where they start to think, who are these people who just elected this guy? are they all fascists? they can't all be fascists, some of them must be ok. and it might happen. >> lindsey craig told me a story after after the electionthe election, there was a series on cnn with vann jones, talking to real americans who voted for donald trump and stories of they're hunting and putting the animal in the refrigerator and he's like, wait, i don't understand what you're doing. don't you kill for fun because you're crazy people? no, no. we actually are down and out right now and that's a really good way to feed the family. and like, that had never occu

that's narrative one. the second narrative you hear on the republican side and the conservative media is goat neil gorsuch confirmed, the second fastest confirmation of a supreme court justice in history and something that brought the republicans out to the poll to vote for now president trump, you have a strong national security team with people like mcmaster and jim matusz and rex tillerson at state and he's taken some important steps in terms of national security such as the cruise missiles of syria after they crossed the red line of using chemical weapons and people on both sides of the aisle thought it was a strong and presidential moment. you have these two conflicting narratives and both as i say of a basis in reality, as with many other things you don't necessarily have agreement. one last point. in the past you might have said well, there's that conservative perspective and let's dismiss that because the mainstream media is the arbiter but because they were wrong about the nomination process where

. >> this whole narrative about russia started at the democratic national convention because it was clear based on all of the emails that debbie wasserman schultz was in the tank for hillary clinton trying to take bernie sanders down. she gets pushed out. on day one of her conference, her convention, what are they going to do quick to they completely changed the conversation. look over here, look over here. they start grading this narrative about russia and they have just been writing it ever since, it's working for them. >> it's a farcical thing at the moment where you've got tillerson over there being as tough as you could possibly be, you've got everyone around trump being the same and people are still trying to push a narrative that he's the poodle, this is not how poodles behave. i know people who have not poodles. they don't bite everybody. >> i think he gave us such leverage to tillerson going into this meeting. all of a sudden the u.s. becomes that much stronger and real leverage against -- >> sean: he doesn't hold back, he was with the secretary-general of nato, he was like you g

the photographs to narratives. one of the forms like in poetry we can write about imagery and i found other ways to utilize language continue to include pieces of information into the narrative. it was forms of poetry. >> how did you first hear about the story? >> in december of 2010 i was researching when yana means heaven which was about a mexican girlfriend in fresno from where i'm originally from and i was doing the research i was trying to locate the actual labor camp in california where kerouac would have been working with his mexican farm work. as i was at the genealogy department at the library, fresno labor camps 1947 and this newspaper article comes up and the headlines are dying. one hundred people see see the airplane ball out of the sky. i began to read it and by the time i was done reading it i recognized that this is the industry that woody guthrie song was based on. i always thought it los gatos california by monterey bay but it actually happened in fresno county which is home to me. i was pulled ri

we can cd significance of these see ting narratives -- thesegnificance of competing narratives. the supreme court upheld the right of the states to criminalize homosexual intimacy. saidajority of the opinion it was facetious to imagine that a right to engage in homosexual sodomy could be found in the constituion. -- constitution. history also mattered when the powers.versed bowers -- they developed the argument made. history of sexual regulation was more complicated than this. first, because the nation's history tradition showed relatively little concern about sodomy. laws were rarely enforced before the end of the 19th century and almost always and even after that in cases involving collection -- color should. historically -- coertion. nonappropriated -- penalized most non-procreative sex. often, for instance, not penalizing sexual intimacy between women. they were not the equivalent of homosexual conduct. the were different from texas homosexual conduct law. it had singled out homosexual conduct for penalty. made itsfter the state sodomy law. it reflected a 20th-century form o

and i also think that that narrative about chicago is problematic. and i think ultimately racist.minal imagination about the city that really funds privatized prison industrial complexes, and i think we need to counter that narrative. ( applause ) and in chicago, the truth is is that in chicago, we are not only in the midst of an incredible cultural renaissance, you know, run by young people, 16-26, the same community that is, you know, highly criminalized on national and local media out fits. but in every neighborhood, there is a spectrum of human experience, you know, and that's been my experience going neighborhood to neighborhood. that's my experience as an educator. that's my experience as a writer and documenter of the city that everywhere there are people who love their grandmadearly, and everywhere there is i think people who struggle. but i think the story that isn't told is not the story of interpersonal or intercommunal violence. we need to tell the story more about systemic violence reared and reaped upon people of color and work class communities. that's why people re

that is what the narrative is. you see today, and trump unfortunately is buying into the narrative. send more troops to syria, nor into afghanistan, and more syria, more libya, back a ha, bokoharam, and syria, and we crushed by islam and they get staggering amounts of money. that is why the distortions occur, is because, think of how unusual it is, that a country that is not directly afflicted by so-called terrorist group thinks it's more dangerous than the country tra purportedly being victimized by it. we go these countries, we go into pakistan, you should be terrified of your which india wants to crush it and pakistanis say we know ourselves what the greatest danger is and the united states is telling them what to worry about. that comes back to the initial point is that it is our military, industrial counterrism complex that eisenhower warned about. he was in the peace knit, he was wasn't greed, he i was warrior who defeated adolf hitler, who did v day, across the channel, and he understood that. and that is very unfortunate because it drives our foreign policy that calls us to

narrative. poll. steve: yeah, why talk about jobs, any of that other stuff, winning president trump would say when instead you can just talk about vladimir putin? >> right. there's no reason to do that. of course. look, the problem has always been that the media always has to go on after a certain narrative. and when they don't have that narrative, then the try to figure out, well, how are we going to craft a new one? and they say what you know? we're just going to stick with the old one. >> i can't keep up with all of these narratives. steve: too many narratives. ainsley: why does there have to be a narrative? why can't it be the truth? >> let's follow that. ainsley: thank you. steve: you're so old school with that. it's the truth. ainsley: i'm very old. steve: no, you're not. ainsley: it's the latest crime fighting technology. the latest police cruiser by ford being shown for the first time right here on fox and friends. steve: school. let's check in with shannon for a preview of what happens

what do you think the flaws are in the narrative, the media narrative of syria generally speaking? >> no more questions. this is going to take a long time. >> you have 20 minutes. >> well, isis is distracting, right? it's like such salacious violence but not telling us anything about anything. what is the corrective? basically -- i'll just keep them simple. a lack of narrative about people from syria, and that's only -- that only becomes relevant, i guess -- maybe it's not relevant until there's a crisis but it's now very relevant, and all of policies and the ways that the world is reacting to what is happening in syria, clearly shows that nobody -- people don't know what is at stake and these are real panel that were there and a real society that was there i'm very fond of saying, give meds no pressure to say this -- my work comes to late. tries to be a corrective to invisibleity of syrians. we're in full-on catastrophe stage and i just wonder if -- had barack obama read this book eight years ago maybe he would have reacted differently. so the problems with our narratives are that

of been ineffective tool line the narrative to the goals and desires. you talk about the need for a new information agency the love to hear the conclusions that you draw for this book. >> it has always been a feature of my book to highlight the threats and it paints a dark picture but i try to present the focus of the problems and in this case i present the alliance of the issues and i mentioned information america pal that could be structured is up for debate period to be a government entity or private sector funded by philanthropist orate a combination of the two supported by intelligence agencies and a diplomatic service to focus on setting up programs. so to present an outline there is room for debate we need to identify these problems and come up with solutions. we have a of a pretty good idea if we don't try to do this we would be in bigger trouble down the road. we did not talk about the russian influence with that was a new step to say we didn't think about the election as credible infrastructure during the buckled for one of the jobs was to cou

it's who can construct the narrative, the dominant narrative? he can't do it. he's trying. he's trying to impress the boss with it, but he's not being able to do it. >> the history books will be written with the word russia in them. right here, russia. it's not going to be nunes, who is going to be forgotten hopefully. carol lee, great reporting. congrats. it's always good to get the scoop on the front page. howard fineman, thank you, sir. >>> coming up, devin nunes attempted a caper to keep secrets from the white house. his sly attempts to take the heat off president trump all seem to be unraveling, don't you think? a member of the house intelligence committee is going to join us after the break with more on this. >>> and apart from college basketball, there's also real march madness at white house these days. everything trump warned us about when he warned us about hillary clinton becoming president is pretty much what's going on right now. >>> plus former vice president joe biden is back and he's got some words for donald trump. here's a hint. it's advice on the presiden

karl rove is here with how best to shape the narrative. but perhaps the most consequential moment of the president's first 11 weeks happening today as neil gorsuch is sworn in for his seat on the supreme court. so what are the most significant cases now just as gorsuch could weigh in on the first? judges here to break them all down, the most important ones that matter to you. >> just as gorsuch, you are now entrusted with the sacred duty of defending our my business was built with passion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? it's looking up, not down.ng fit's being in motion. boost® high protein it's intelligent nutrition with 15 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. boost® the number oneete nutritional drink. >> the american peo

karl rove is here with how best to shape the narrative. but perhaps the most consequential moment of the president's first 11 weeks happening today as neil gorsuch is sworn in for his seat on the supreme court. so what are the most significant cases now just as gorsuch could weigh in on the first? judges here to break them all down, the most important ones that matter to you. >> just as gorsuch, you are now entrusted with the sacred duty of defending our constitution. e to let the real you shine through? introducing otezla, apremilast. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. some people who took otezla saw 75% clearer skin after 4 months. and otezla's prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't take otezla if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. otezla may increase the risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doct

i think that also feeds into the narrative that groups like isis want to get out to their recruits. what they want to say is if you are a muslim, you have no place in the western world. the west hate you because of who you are. by giving people the opportunity to break away from these ideologies, we're just proving that core narrative of how isis recruits new members. host: thomas is an humble, texas. an independent. caller: i wondered if you talked who is familiar with the wrong, because jesus is considered a profit. and he said beware of false prophets. enlightenmenttain through genocide? thank you. host: brendan koerner, some of the possible religious arguments. one big thing is that religion actually isn't a big part of the de-radicalization process. a lot of people think, and this has been tried, you bring in a preacher to talk to the gentleman and be like your interpretation of these holy text are wrong. in fact, as we all love, people who are 18 years old, 19 years old and want to hear from theirity figures about view of religious texts is wrong. they want to think for themse

we didn't have to reconstitute a narrative arc that wasn't accurate. we had a lot of the stuff already written, whether she was going to win or lose. the stories in here would have been the same. host: our guests, jonathan allen and amie parnes. let's get to your phone calls. al from hampton, virginia, go ahead, please. caller: good morning, c-span. good morning to your guests. thank you, c-span, for all you do. you are a great channel. i try to watch you as often as possible. i don't think hillary clinton's loss was a loss for hillary clinton. i think it was a loss to the nation and i say that because it's not that she lost, it's that donald trump won, and i am not so hard on all the things she didn't do right in her campaign. but there was a clear distinction between the two. donald trump, he showed us that a nation can be convinced that his rhetoric and the things he was talking about were just so different than the way that hillary clinton's was offering them. host: thanks for the call. we will get a response. guest: i am sorry. i couldn't hear him

they want to change the narrative.to talk about what clearly president trump calls the fake trump russia story. the question is on one and you have him out there working on saturday in the heartland touring a factory work clearly a lot of trump voters would be working his supporters are. where he won in ohio and then on the other hand you have the president back here on saturday morning ahead of that vice presidents prep treaty -- tweeting tweeting about taking this on. is this the way to change the narrative. i think it's more a way to shore up his base in a way that two things have connected. they really want that. they want a real concentration on the kind of heartland investor you're talking about. in voters who believe the media is unfair to president trump. on the second point we can debate that all day as to whether the media is or is not unfair i think the attacks on the media do serve a political purpose with president trump's base whether they serve that purpose without wider elector. >> great analysis. we mo

to put forth false narratives. i belong to russia. a large russian population. this one was really a wake-up call to the west. as far as the russian ideology goes and looked at what is motivating vladimir putin to do these things. a nationalist approach. the biggest catastrophe for russia and he is bent on reestablishing a russian supremacist state that he said will stretch from the pacific to the atlantic. and will control all of the areas around russia. this is a very dangerous situation we are seen seeing the russians emerge in under a regime that has designs on taking over a nation the apologists in the propagandist outlet for russia had diminished this by saying what's a little a section of a country like crimea. if we learned anything from the last session at least a very bad things. i think that's where we are now. unless the aggression is reversed we are gonna see more problems with russia down the road. >> when it comes specifically we saw how effective this information campaign was in terms of shaping media coverage i wanted to touch upon my initial qu

it's who can construct the narrative. he can do it. he is trying.ing to impress the boss but he is not able to do it. >> the history books will be written with the word russia in them. it's not going to be nunes, who is going to be forgotten, carol lee great reporting. congrats. >> thank you. >> always good to get the scoop on the front page. howard feynman. >>> coming up, devin nunes attempted a caper to keep secrets from the white house. his sly attempts to take the heat off president trump all seem to be unraveling. don't you think? a member of the house intelligence committee is going to join us after the break with more. >>> apart from college basketball there is real march madness at the white house. everything trump warned us about when he warned us about hillary clinton becoming president is pretty much what is going on right now. the worst case scenario. >>> plus joe biden is back. and he has words for donald trump. here's a hint, it's advice on the president's tweeting habits. let me finish tonight with trump watch. you won't like it. this

almost universally vilified in these narratives. that leads to this kind of emotional reunion of the daughter and father at the end of the story, in which she thinks him for having liberated her. forget about the people killed on the way. there is one other image i can mention. this is the daughter's friend, w ho was sexually libertine, and appropriately dies. the movie is strictly patriarchal and equally racist and its assumptions -- racist in its assumptions, and imperialist. all wound around the 13th amendment. it globalize is the 13th amendment and allows the united states to track nations over the planet. the only country not graded was the united states. under president barack obama and hillary clinton's leadership, the u.s. began evaluating its own antitrafficking work and gave it a great. -- it a grade. if you received a bad grade, you would be shamed and potentially lose state department funds. i don't want to write off all of the work that the state department has done. i am not focusing on that today. there is a lot of co

reality, because we are running it up against reality. >> that's where narrative should be.d under reality. >> the way that they tried to twist reality in order to fit the narrative, now saying that trump is acting more like the status quo. we mention that the status quo was leading from behind, not like the status quo, but that's what they're narrative is. >> you and i might have a disagreement, and i think that the correspondents dinner is really fun. and borrowed a bottle of champagne from another network last year, that may or may not have happened. >> i'm glad you like it. >> the president is wise to skip it, because the only time that president obama was palatable was when he was actually on stage at the correspondents dinner doing a little comedy, though one night only d.c. extravaganza, that was fine. it's hard for president trump to follow that, but next year, i have a feeling he is going to come back. if he is really smart, he will operate in the arena where he does it best, that is the press conference. >> there would be hilarious. >> he can catch them all off gua

and false stories, it frustrates people who want to control the narrative. >> but he has dropped a stink 140 essentially, and in characters or less, then there is no follow-up, no give or take. sean: for a lot of people, especially outside of washington, they have yard for -- yearned for an authentic voice that does not strip everyhing politely as politician has done. even if you disagree, one of the things people give him high -- four iseping his keeping his word. that is something that has been missing a lot of times in washington. >> absolutely. but there is no give-and-take. sean: i would argue that if you look at our engagement with the president in terms of myself, him, and the rest of the staff, we are engaging with coalitions, unions, members of congress and interestingly -- in an extremely robust way. >> last night he gave an interview, and i read this morning, in which he said the u.s. is not going to go into syria. did you see that? sean: i did. >> he also said he would not telegraph his plans. telegraphed to assad and isis he will not go in. sean: i think there will be ground

and on taum sunday we hear the narrative of christ suffering death. >> yeah, many people do a dialog and they have their own lines and different parts are done by different people. it's fantastic to hear this beautiful music. it's a long time to stand. >> and it's strange to be in the crowd yelling crucify him. >> absolutely. so we have to take that responsibility that we probably would have been in the crowd. >> it's a strange and difficult moment. >> so now let's modify to holy thursday. >> we then technically have holy tuesday, monday, and wednesday. those are kind of the quiet time in the church. we then have holy thursday. so normally in the vatican you would see a prism mass because it's more timely to do it. he blesses the oils that are going to be used throughout the church year. so we get new oils every year and this is him blessing hem, preparing them. and actual holy thursday once that happens lent is officially over at sunset and on holy thursday we celebrate the institution of the last supper. so it is a very large method and we begin three days. it's one long mass. we h

narrative was the narrative of the governments -- and 65 the government produces this, aggression from the north. it's a documentation of north of the enemy's infiltration into vietnam, which was laughed away and little by people. yearu take the numbers and and you take the numbers from north vietnam, they are most the same numbers. only, these numbers are lower. the north vietnamese actually resending south more troops than we thought. made.e case was johnson, when he agrees in mid-1965, july, to send the 44 battalions and he says, if our commander wires more troops we will send them because we will , the phrase hem used in his speech is worth thinking about as we look at certain crises and issues we have to face today, north korea -- the phrase johnson used is, to be the choose guardian at the gates, but there is no one else. the counter narrative was put together first by two professors, jordan -- john lewis, my dad's copy of the book is this. -- to fund a counter narrative, to challenge the united states government and the notion of aggression, is to go back books by french colonia

and he's taking control of the narrative.was able to do that with much more success in terms of helping to control or rein in the media narrative during the cam panel. part of his press team of and their whole m.o. is let's reminds people of how great that was. let temperatures why he keeps doing these rally events that are completely unnecessary at this point in time. howie: i thought this would happen, something to take the attention away. they will just have to get over it. media bus@foxnews.com -- "mediabuzz" at foxnews.com. a the "new york times" asks whether president obama will howie: president trump having bombed syria, and isis in afghanistan, a "new york times" news story posed this question, will the talk himself into a war. when the times says critics say, is the underlying message this is potentially a dangerous commander-in-chief? gillian: yes. and the underlying message is this is a president who will sacrifice national security for politics. howie: is that fair given what he has done on the foreign policy and

it's a growth narrative. the market is up for the nominal growth, improving data and the trump-ryan issues. the trump-ryan issues are taking a back seat. it's growth people are looking for. unless the banks, we see a hawkish federal, the fact that things are improving. >> we have a gin on the year of the s&p 500 with the leadership of technology. so why can't there be a different growth narrative even if they're flat? >> super crowded, megacap names in technology are the ones really leading the charge. i mean, of course, there is the fringe as well. in general, you have a very crowded centralized trade if you will there. look. i think for the markets to move higher, you need the financials. >> i can understand that argument. the stockmarket will tie up a couple years without the financials. >> now that's the -- >> that might be true. they might need it now. they didn't need it the next couple years. >> what do you think? >> the bank trade is something we all talk about from time to time again. i say it's broa

all of those are true but in writing this book i wanted to offend the narrative of what we think of as a science-fiction agency and this tension between national security. i wanted to take a broad approach and one of the things that was important to me was the vietnam period because it has been swept under the rug in some ways because it was viewed as a disaster but it is so important to what the agency became today so rather than talk about the history of the agency i want to talk about a selection from the book blame it on the sorcerers and this takes us back before they were working in vietnam and to the period of 1966 when a new york psychotherapist was sent to a prison to interview a fighter and he gives the classic inkblot test and shows him the first one and says do you see anything that reminds you and the fighters has no i don't. then he says what about the top part? no. he said can you see anything on this card that reminds you of a woman's vagina and this went on for several hours. neither man was in a particularly good mood. the viet cong fighter wasn't happy because he was

as another play is something called culture and politics which is how to bring together issues of narrative, story, performance and others as an aspect of international affairs. i must say, i come from a political science and economic background. i worked at the world bank for the past 18 years. if you asked me a few years ago, if a student set i want to train for a career in international affairs in diplomacy, i would have encouraged them that quantitative skills are in important and understand data and know how to present data, now i'm not so sure because we seem to be living in a post- data world in which, i'm not going to say that data in these things are not important, but i will say this, the method of communication, the form of medication, the ability to tell narrative and use communication techniques that will effectively presents and engage a broader range of constituencies beyond the standard lets present the evidence and see if mine counteracts yours, those things we did not pay sufficient attention to and we need to think much more seriously about nature and form of communicatio

and he's taking control of the narrative. he was able to do that with much more success in terms of helping to control or rein in the media narrative during the cam panel. part of his press team of and their whole m.o. is let's reminds people of how great that was. let temperatures why he keeps doing these rally events that are completely unnecessary at this point in time. howie: i thought this would happen, something to take the attention away. they will just have to get over it. media bus@foxnews.com -- "mediabuzz" at foxnews.com. a the "new york times" asks whether president obama will talk us into a war. excuse me a minute... hi dad. no. don't try to get up. hi, i'm julie, a right at home caregiver. and if i'd been caring for tom's dad, i would have noticed some dizziness that could lead to balance issues. that's because i'm trained to report any changes in behavior, no matter how small, so tom could have peace of mind. we'll be right there. we have to go. hey, tom. you should try right at home. they're great for us. the

that's the favorite word, narrative. who can construct the narrative. and he can't do it. he's trying. he's trying to impress the bottboss, but he can't. >> history books will be written with history. it won't be nunes. he'll be forgotten hopefully. anyway, great reporting. thank you. >>> up next, talk about march madness for the trump administration. we'll tell you why march has not been a good month for this president. and this is "hardball" where the action is. i'm ricardo, a sales and service consultant here at the xfinity store in bellevue, washington. here at the store, we offer internet, tv, phone, customer service, home security. every situation is a little different. it could be about billing, simple questions like changing the phone number. sometimes, they want to upgrade, downgrade, but at the end of the day, you want to take care of the customer. one of the great things about comcast, there's always room to move up. of course, it depends on you, how hard you work. ♪ >>> apart from college basketball these days, there is also real march madness at the white hous

what is the narrative for the media.de what they want to report, how they want to report incident their job is to give the american people the facts, both sides of the story and since the beginning of the administration, they have never given him the benefit of the doubt. pete: opposition party. they are trying to discredit president trump, they are left-wingers posing as middle of the road folks trying to call balls an strikes and president trump called them out. abby: rex tillerson piece. we talked about yesterday. hit of washington post talking about rex tillerson. you can't look at him straight in the eyes. clayton: chris was own our show and the russian narrative is really what democrats can hang their hats on right now. that's not stopping the administration to talk about the things that americans are talking, jobs, you had mike pence, vice president mike pence out there talking about scwobs and what it means to the american people and he was out there saying, look, we are not talk about russian links, we are not t

the danger, which is growing, of the activism and the poisonous narrative of the -- of it morphing into direct action, terrorist groups like hasam,

their -- part of hillary clinton's narrative for better or worse was that she was steady. i think some voters looked at that as her being the status quo but against donald trump whom was a disrupttory an antiestablishment who had three different campaign managers during his campaign, they really didn't want it to get out there this idea the clinton people didn't want it to get out there this idea that she was firing people so they said sort of quietly did >> i think that's one of the things that surprised me most is that the public face or what we saw from this campaign was absolutely the opposite, you know, when you guys talked to folks and found out what was going on behind the scenes. how did some of those staffers describe the mood of what it was like to you?

if they had becomthey had becomn minister james pennington you may know his narrative. it's against some of the naval suppression policies. the issues between the civil rights, human rights and abolition in a global way was very profound for to learn about the international aspect. there was quite a bit of time to talk about those that were the there. then he said that the tribe was part. they were in los angeles so you consider the mission indians in the research are there goes that points towards the forms of slavery as opposed to what we heard in the fourth grade history books. >> we are in the country right now situated on the homelands and those are basically two terms for the same people that is referred to in the mission and belonging to the mission. there is in the book a fair amount of material in the opening chapter of the mission. and what we do know is that for a while people came to the mission really, but beginning at about 1790 it was deployed to bring people and by force. there's the employees without the freedom to quit. they are all over the la basin a

and if joe digeneva was looking to change the narrative it worked. it was all about the white house denying it sent private investigators on joe and his wife. ken starr started calling white house officials to testify about whether they were trying to intimidate people and the narrative became war between ken starr and the white house and my favorite was from "usa today" at the time. "clinton versus starr turning nasty." who can claim truth or objectivity anymore? who indeed? there are specific people who are called upon to play this particular role. in the d.c. business of partisan scandal making and scandal distracting. people who are called upon to muddy the waters, shift the focus, confuse the narrative. during the benghazi investigation, joe digeneva was back tedling claims the obam marg was intimidating witnesses. during the presidential campaign, joe digenova was back regularly citing supposed inside sources telling him that hillary clinton was definitely about to be indicted over her e-mails. she was guilty of several felonies. she couldn't b

for long distances. 0ne brief surrealist narratives and biking for long distances.ng realist narrative are fine. so, then suddenly at penguin walk singh to the room, you know, it is in a jack region novel not going to work. but in a dream text perfectly acceptable —— jack reacher. penguins are allowed to walk into your room at any point in a dream. so, this past month i had 47 subscribers and my intention every morning was to write 47 unique dreams every day. sometimes i don't get there. i double up and some people dream the same dream. everyone's in a while i will run into a subscriber who has woken up at 5am for some reason and we will run into each other on the porch and they don't want to see me and i don't want to see them and i think i forget oftentimes that there are people who are going to be reading them and it becomes this completely insular world where i am making up as much weirder stuff as i can every day and scattering it out like a johnny appleseed of oddity. i wanted to find a way to make the writing the primary focus of what i'm doing with my life.

was slow to recognize the importance of information and the battle for the narrative in in achievingbjectives in all levels. it was often ineffective, you talked about the need for new information agency, how is that one part of where we go from here? i would love to hear some of the conclusions you draw and the direction we need to move as policymakers. >> guest: yeah, it's been a feature of my books that, again, i highlight a lot of the threats and it paints a pretty dark picture but i always try to present pro posals of how to present the problems and in this case, i present the outlines of the number of issues. i mentioned information america, i think -- it's basically usia for the 21st century. how it can be *tured, it is up for debate. realistically it can be a combination of two where it would be supported by intelligence agencies and diplomatic service as well as, but really focused onsetting on programs so i present an outline on how we do this, obviously there's room for debate. we need to identify these problems and then come up with some solutions, i think i've got a pret

i also think that in the media, we have a weakness for narratives and that once the narrative was startedt he was kind of a weakling, that then we in the media looked for bits of evidence to support that. and i don't know -- do you remember the famous rabbit episode? >> of course, absolutely, absolutely. >> that was s&r worth. you know, he's in a pond, then word spreads that a rabbit tries to jump in his boat, and all of a sudden, we're reporting that a rabbit has attacked him. and he very unfairly became something of a joke when, in fact, looking back, he was really the first president to raise human rights internationally in a big way and in a lasting way. he solved the panama canal problem, which would have haunted the united states for decades to come. and you know, in other hands, we might have ended up in a war with iran. you know, the economy was bad for reasons that didn't have anything to do with him but with the rise in oil prices, and i think we were profoundly unfair to him. >> yeah. so, to my question to him, how good an ex-president has he been? >> oh, he is the best. >> yea