however, one wonders what would've happened to the ku klux klan if nathan bedford forrest had been hanged before he could organize the ku klux klan. one wonders if in fact a harsher peace might not have, in the end, brought about a more lasting and just peace. it is at least something to speculate. one of the models is the reconstruction of germany. after the second world war, the german people had no doubts what the cause was, at least for -- what the cost was, at least for their highest leaders, of war crimes. while wirz is a war criminal, he is a low-level war criminal. there were others. >> the picture that you showed to begin were taken of people after the camp had been liberated. how much was known by the northern public or the government about andersonville and what was happening before? >> i don't know. the histories are in dispute on this. there are not people being exchanged out of andersonville. while there are some people escaping and there are rumors going on -- but i don't know -- >> my second comment to that you discussed the ladies and their vegetables. how much was known