. >> tell us what the national association of medical examiner is is. >> yes. the national association of medical examiners is the professional organization for people who do what i do for a living. i want to say we have 800 o. 900 memberes, many are fellows like me, meaning fully board-certified forensic pathologist. we have other categories for support personnel in the profession. >> you are former president of the national association of medical examiners. >> yes. >> in fact, at least as of to date you're the youngest president -- were the youngest president ever to hold that position with the name. >> i don't actually know that's true but i will take your word for it, counsel. did not know that. >> so, you have been the president of name. >> yes. >> so, let's move now to the specific autopsy of mr. floyd. could you give us some sense of what you knew about the circumstances surrounding his death before you started your work on mr. floyd. >> yes. so, i was aware that mr. floyd had become unconscious while in police custody. he had been transported to the henn

and have you followed the this kind of a guideline for the years you've been a medical examiner. is there more guidance given from the national association of medical examiner guidelines on what constitutes voluntary. if you could. and so dr thomas beautiful in general different persons death results at the hands of another who committed a harmful volitional act directed at the victim the. maybe considered homicide from the death investigation standpoint and then although there may not have been an intent to kill the victim the victim died because of the harmful intentional the official act committed by another person thus the manner of death may be classified as homicide because of the intentional or volitional act not because there was an intent to kill and when you agree with the conclusion that dr baker reached of homicide is this the definition of homicide that you're applying that we saw in these 2 slides. thank you doctor. now i want to ask you about a new subject and this has to do with certain studies that assess whether they're prone restraint is dangerous from a breathing point of view and i'd like to get your perspective as a

. >> would you tell us with the national association of medical examiners is? es, national association of medical examiners is professional organizations for people who do what i do for a living i want to say we have about eight or 900 members, many are fellows like me meaning they are fully board certified pathologist. we do have a variety of other membership categories as well for investigators for administrative personnel and other support personnel in the profession. >> you are former president of the national association medical examiners? >> yes. >> at least as of today, you're the youngest president ever to hold that position? >> i don't actually know that that is true for i will take your word for it, i did not know that. [laughter]>> >> you have been the president of it? >> yes. >> let's move to the specific autopsy of mr. floyd will, give us a sense about the circumstances surrounding his death. >> yes, i was aware mr. floyd had become unconscious while in police custody, transported to the medical healthcare, that's where he was pronounced dead. i bel

dr would you tell us what the national association of medical examiners. yes the national association of medical examiners is the professional organization for people who do what i do for a living. i want to say we have about 8 or 900 members many of those are fellows like need meaning they're fully board certified forensic pathologists we do have a variety of other membership categories as well for investigators for administrative personnel and for other support personnel in the profession. now u.s. our former president of the national association of medical examiners yes i am in fact at least as of today you are the youngest president of the un has president ever to hold that position but the am i dead i don't actually know that's true but i will take your word for it counselor i think i did not know that yeah i thought it was just listen to you dr baker. so but if you have been the president of any of the yes i have. so let's move now to the specific autopsy of mr floyd. could you give us some sense of what you knew about the circumstances surrounding hi

they have met certain standards the national association of medical examiner board of directors believe are appropriate for the office to have in order to ensure the safety of both the staff that work in the office and also the community that they serve. >> are you a member of that committee? >> i am now and i was a previous chairman of that committee. >> does it have a standards committee? >> it does. right now they are two separate committees. previously, they were both inspection and standards were under one committee at the time i was the chairperson of that. it has now been separated into two separate ones. >> got you. how are the standards approved? >> the standards are different. as i said, the accreditation process is approved by the board of directors. the standards are a grass-roots process where any member can suggest a standard. that is then put out to the general population of members and then those are discussed and voted on at the annual general meeting in the business meeting. so, therefore, anybody out of the hundreds of pathologists that are present at that meeting can

of a guideline for the years you've been a medical examiner? >> yes. >> is there more guidance given from the national association of medical examiner guidelineswhat constitutes voluntary acts? >> yes. >> if you could click one more. dr. thomas, could you read this for us. >> in general if a person's death results at the hands of another who committed a harmful volitional act directed at the victim the death may be considered a homicide from the death investigation standpoint. and then although there may not have been intento kill the victim the victim died because of the harmful, intentional, volitional act committed by another person. thus, the manner of death may be classified as homicide because of the intentional or volitional act, not because there was intent to kill. >> and when you agree with the conclusion that dr. baker reached of homicide, is this the definition of homicide that you're applying that we saw in these two slides? >> yes. >> thank you, dr. thomas. now i want to ask you about a new subject. and this has to do with certain studies that assess whether the prone restraint is dangerous from a breathing point of view. and i'd

. >> so this is guidance given from the national association of medical examiners to medical examiners? >> exactly. >> and it is guidance and guidelines of howe to designate the manner of death as homicide? >> yes. >> let's go to the next line, please. okay, doctor, it could you read this and for the record? >> homicide occurs when death results from a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear or harm or death. intend to cause death is a common element, but it is not wired for n classification as homicide. it is to be emphasized that for the purposes of death certification is a neutral term and neither indicates or implies criminal intent, which remains a determination within the province of legal processes. >> do you agree with this? >> yes, absolutely 2 it is a guideline that you follow? >> yes. >> have you followed it as a guideline for the years you have been a medical examiner. >> yes. >> is there more guidance given from the national association of medical examiner guidelines on what constitutes a voluntary act? >> doctor thomas. >> in general if a person's death r

of a guideline for the years you've been in medical examiner? >> yes. >> is there more guidance given from the national association of medical examiner guidelines on what constitutes voluntary act? >> yes. >> if you could click one more, brett. so dr. thomas, could you read this for? >> in general, if a person's of death result of hands of another who committed a harmful volitional act directed at the victim, the death may be considered homicide from the death investigation standpoint. and then, although there may not have been intent to kill the victim, the victim died because of the harmful, intentional, volitional act committed by another person. thus, a manner of death may be classified as homicide cousin of the intentional or volitional act, not because there was intent to kill. >> and when you agree with the conclusion that dr. baker reached of homicide, is this the definition of homicide that you are applying that we saw in these slight? >> yes. >> thank you, dr. thomas. now, i want to ask you about a new subject, and this has to do with certain studies that assess whether the prone restraint is dangerous from a breathing point of view.

of this medical expert witness. >> -- national association of medical examiners. >> are you a member of n.a.m.e.?leadership positions in that organization? >> i have, yes. >> let me ask you this: does n.a.m.e. have an inspection and accreditation process? >> yes, it does. >> or committee, i should say. >> yes, it has a committee which does that particular task for the organization. >> what is the responsibility of the inspection and accreditation committee? >> to evaluate medical examiner and cokocoroner offices, a voluy program. basically it means the medical examiner's office, once they've passed that evaluation and been accredited, have met certain standards that the national association of medical examination board of directors believe are appropriate for the office to have in order to assure the safety of both the staff that work in the office and also the community that they serve. >> are you a member of that committee? >> i am now, and i was a previous chairman of that committee. >> douse n.a.m.e. have a standards committee? >> it does. right now they are two separate committees. previousl

medical association of american, american academy forensic sciences and i've been on the board of the minnesota corners medical examiners association probably 30 plus years and i am a member of the national association of medical examiners and i was on the board member of the executive committee for a number. >> that goes by the acronym -- >> yes. >> what does name mean? >> is a professional organization of medical legal investigators, forensic pathologist medical examiners and as an organization, they provide support to medical examiners, they provide information, guidelines, accreditation program, inspection program, lots of ways of assisting medical examiner officers. >> have you done any teaching? >> yes, i have been a clinical instructor here at the university of minnesota department off pathology, i've done lots of law enforcement training to the criminal apprehension in minnesota as wellll as teaching everything fm middle school science students for high school and college and all kinds of professional groups other forensic pathologist law enforcement, you name the organization that comes into contact with death investigation, i have probably talked to some of them at some time. >

association, college of american pathologists and american academy of forensic scientists and then i'm on the board of the minnesota coroners medical examiner's association. probably 30+ years. and then i'm a member of the national association of medical examiners and i was on that board and a member of their executive committee for a number of years. >> that goes by the acronym main. what does maine do. >> they are the professional organization of medical legal death investigators, physically forensic pathologist and medical examiners and as an organization they provide support to medical examiners. they provide information. they provide guidelines and accreditation programs and inspection programs, lots of ways of assisting medical examiner offices. >> doctor thomas, have you done any teaching western mark. >> yes. i have been a clinical instructor here at the university of minnesota department ofpathology . i've done lots of law enforcement training through the bureau of criminal apprehension here in minnesota. as well as all my gosh, teaching. everything from middle school science students through high school and college and all kinds of professional groups whether it's other forensic apologist or law enforc

evaluate medical examiner and criminal the program and basically, in the medical examiner's office once a past that evaluation and being accredited, have met certain standards than the national association of medical examiners and board of directors believe more appropriate the office to have in order to ensure the safety of both the people who work in the office and also the community who placed in their. >> are you a member of that committee. >> i am now and i was in previous chamber of that committee. >> does name have a standards. >> it does right now, they are two separate committees. previously, they were both inspection and standards were under one committee. at the time that i was, rep. .[inaudible]. >> how are the standards approved. >> the standards are different, as i said the accreditation standards approved by the board of directors. the standards are across grassroots process, were any member can suggest a standard. it's been put out to the general population, the members names and then those are discussed and voted on at the annual general meeting in the business meeting. and so therefore, anybody out of hundreds of pathologist who are doesn't at the meeting can stand up and

now, you are a former president of the national association of medical examiners? n fact, at least as of today you are the youngest president -- or were the youngest president ever to hold that position with the name? >> i don't know that that's true. but i will take your word for it, counsel. i did not know that. >> i thought i was just licensing for you dr. baker. >>reporter: you had you have been backup the protective placement of name. >> yes, i am. >> let's move to the specific autopsy of mr. floyd. could you give us some sense of what you knew about the circumstances surrounding his death before you started your work on mr. floyd. >> yes, so i was aware that mr. floyd had become unconscious while in police custody, that he had been transported to hennepin health care, that that was where he was pronounced dead. i believe at the time i started the examination my staff was probably still working to confirm mr. floyd's identity and properly notify his next of kin. but that was basically the background information that i had. >> had you seen any of the videos at t

association, american medical association, college of american pathologists. i have been on the board of the minnesota coroner's and medical examiners association probably 30 plus years. and then i'm a member of the nationalsociation of medical examiners and i was on that board. i was a member of their executive committee for a number of years. >> that goes by the acronym n.a.m.e.? >> yes. >> what was n.a.m.e. do? >> they're specifically for medical pathologists and medical examiners. they provide support to medical examiners. they provide information, guidelines, accreditation programs, inspection programs. lots of ways of assisting medical examiner offices. >> have you done any teaching? >> yes. i have been a clinical instructor here at the university of minnesota department of pathology. i have done lots of law enforcement training through the bureau of criminal apprehension here in minnesota, as well as oh my gosh, teaching everything from middle school science students through high school and college and all kinds of professional groups whether it is other forensic pathologists or other groups of law enforcement. you name the organization that comes into contact with death investigation and i have pr

. >> but this is guidance given from the national association of medical examiners to medical examiners? >> exactly. >> so perhaps if we could go to the next slide. could you read this. >> homicide occurs when a volitional act by another person to caught fear, harm or death. intent is a common element but not required as classification for homicide. >> you agree with this? >> absolutely. >> it's a guideline you have followed? >> yes. >> have you followed this guideline for the years you have been a medical examiner? >> yes. >> is there more guidance given from the guidelines on what constitutes -- >> yes. >> could you read this for us? >> thus, the manner may be classified as homicide because of the act, not because there was intent to kill. >> you agree with the conclusion reached by dr. baker. is this the definition of homicide you are applying that we saw in these two slides? >> yes. >> thank you, doctor. i want to ask you about a new subject. this has to do with certain studies that assess whether the prone restraint is dangerous from a breathing point of view. i'd like to get your

sciences, and then i've been on the board of the minnesota coroners and medical examiner's association, probably 30 plus years and then i'm a member of the nationals on that board and a member of their executive committee for a number of years. >> and that goes by n.a.m.e.? >> yes. >> what does n.a.m.e. do? >> well, they're the professional organization of medical legal death investigators specifically forensic pathologist medical examiners. and as an organization, they provide support to medical examiners. they provide information. they provide guidelines, accreditation program and inspection program. lots of ways of assisting medical examiner offices. >> dr. thomas, have you done any teaching? >> yes. >> tell us about it. >> i have been a clinical instructor here ee at the university of minnesota, i've done lots of law enforcement training through the bureau of criminal apprehension here in minnesota as well as -- oh, my gosh, teaching everything from, you know, middle school science students through high school and college and all kinds of professional groups whether it is other forensic pathologists, other law enforcement, you know, you name

to be clear, because of that false report, anton's family and the community are still searching for accountability. the professional association for medical examiner for the nationalociation of medical examiners is very clear about what homicide is. it is dead at the hands of another. it is not about culpability like whether the person was acting in self-defense. it is about accurately and truthfully describing cause and effect. but for the person's actions would this person be alive. but what we saw was the attempt to deflect responsibility or causality to anything but the actual obvious cause, which was police use of force and restraints. and so in anton's autopsy, the medical examiner's report said several things. first, they said there was no evidence of positional asphyxia. that sounds pretty definitive to a layperson at first. but then you review the literature and talk to other experts who say in many instances, there will not be a physical signature. so the absence of evidence does not tell you anything. here is a real difference and the concern we had that led us to take action in th case is the difference between rendering opinions were reasonable minds

medical examiners about how to select homicide as a manner of death? >> yes. there is a guide that was published by the national association of medical examiners that provides assistance in how to make a determination between these different -- >> i want to show you what's been marked as exhibit 952. do you see that, dr. thomas? >> yes. >> is this the publication that provides the guidance to medical examiners on how to determine manner of death? >> yes. >> would reference to excerpts be helpful to your testimony? >> yes. >> we offer excerpts from 952? >> any objection? >> yes, i do object to this, your honor. >> would this be a good time to break to deal with the sidebar issue as well? members of the jury, we will take our 20-minute -- we will probably have work here. let's come back around five after. >> good friday morning to you. craig melvin here. we are watching and listening to the tenth day of testimony in the murder trial of derek chauvin. you just heard there judge cahill announcing a 23-minute break roughly. they're going to return at five past the hour. chauvin, the former minneapolis officer charged with killi

national association is? >> the national association for medical examiners is the association for people who do what i do. i want to say we have about 800 or 900 members. many ofe fellows like me meeting their fully board certified forensic pathologists. we do have investigative personnel and for other support personnel in the profession. >> now, you are a former president of the national association of medical examiners? >> yes, i am. >> in fact, at least to date, you were the youngest president ever to hold that position with the nane? >> i don't actually know that's true, but i will take your word for it, counselor. i did not know that. >> in any event, you have been the president of nane? >> yes, i am. >> let's move now to the specific autopsy of mr. floyd. could you give us some sense of what you knew about the circumstances surrounding his death before you started your work? >> i knew mr. floyd had been conscious in police custody, that he was transferred to hennepin county where he was pronounced dead. i believe at the time i started my examination, my staff was probably still working to confirm mr. floyd's identity and properly notify his next of kin.

medical examiners about how to select homicide as a manner of death? >> yes. there is a guide that was published by the national association of medical examiners that provides assistance in how to make a determination between these different manners. >> i want to show you exhibit 952. do you see that? >> yes. >> is this the publication that provides guidance on how to determine manner of death? >> yes. >> with reference to excerpts of this guide be helpful to your testimony? >> yes. >> your honor, we offer excerpts from exhibit 952. >> any objection? >> yes, i do object to this, your honor. sidebar? >> actually, is this a good time to break so we can deal with the sidebar issue as well? members of the jury, we'll take our 20-minute -- we'll have some work here. so let's come back around five after. 11:05. >> we're going to take a break in the murder trial of derek chauvin. let me bring in laura coates and chief charles ramsey for more on this. laura, they went for an extended period of time so far without taking any breaks or even any side bars with this forensic pathologist testimony. give me reaction to what we've been h

>> it is a national association of medical examiners. nelson: a number? >>edxaty i am. nelson: do you hold any leadership positions? >> i have, yes. nelson: does it have the inspection and accreditation process? >> yes it does. a committee that does. nelson: what is the responsibility of the inspection and accreditationat committee. >> to inspect medical examination officers. it is a voluntary program. basically it means a medical examiner's office, wednesday past evaluation to be accredited have met certain standards that the national association of the board of directorshe that are appropriate for thehe office to have to ensure the safety of the staff that work in the office and the community they serve. nelson: are youy a member? >> i am no and was previous chairman of the committee. nelson: does name have a standards committee? >> it does. right no there are two separate committees. previously they were both inspection and standards under one committee at the time i was the chairperson no they are separated. nelson: how are the standards approved? >> they are differ

medical examiners about how to select homicide as a manner of death? >> yes. >> there is a guy that is published by the national association of medical examiners that provides assistance and how to make a determination between these differences. >> i want to show you as what has been marked as exhibit nine 952. >> yes. >> is this the publication on how to determine manner of death? with reference to exurbs from this, would that be helpful to your testimony? >> yes. >> interjection. [inaudible] >> we will take a break, let's come back around five after the hour. 1:05 p.m. >> entertaining to this particular exhibit, i don't think it is appropriate for it to be admitted as an actual exhibit because it contains what constitutes homicide. including what the jury is instructed instructing, whether or not determining the legal definition of this case. and so in this particular instance, i think it would confuse the jury between the medical definition in the legal definition, i do not think it is appropriate. >> i can't see the whole exhibit. all i can see is the title page. >> nec that, your honor? >> you have any objection to this? >> no, i do not have it as bein