corruption in saudi arabia the deliberate targeting of the press has worried the united nations human rights commission all across the world called 1000 is also being instrumental lies to limit people's rights to speak to express opinion and to participate in making decisions that affect their lives in the russian federation china kosovo many other countries i know it reports of threats and intimidation against journalist brokers and civic activist but at the local level with the aim of this courage and criticism of the

coronavirus deny all rallies the deliberate targeting of the press has worried the united nations human rights commission. across the world called in 1000 it's also been instrumental lies to limit people's rights to speak to express opinion and to participate in making decisions that affect their lives in the russian federation china kosovo many other countries i know of reports of threats and intimidation against journalist brokers and civic activist particularly at the local level with the aim of this courage and criticism of the author of this response is to call it 19. at a time when information can save lives press repression can fuel the pandemic. here's more on the latest developments in a crowded biased pandemic the world health organization has praised the response of countries in asia to the pandemic the director general lauded the continent's perseverance with anti coronavirus measures. preliminary results from a late stage clinical trial in brazil show that an experimental vaccine developed by chinese company cinna back appears to be safe the trials 13000 participants will now to 10 you to be

corruption in saudi arabia the deliberate targeting of the press has worried the united nations human rights commission all across the world cup in 1000 is also being instrumental lies to limit people's rights to speak to express opinion and to participate in making decisions that affect their lives in the russian federation china course of many other countries i know reports of threats and intimidation against journalist brokers and civic activist but at the local level with the apparent aim of this courage and criticism of the oil for this response is to keep it 19. at a time when information can save lives press repression can fuel the pandemic. i'm joined now by ali funk a senior research analyst for technology and democracy at freedom house good to have you with us your freedom on the edge report states that the pandemic is fuelling digital repression worldwide how does that work. hi thank you so much for having me so freedom has found that 2020 was the 10th consecutive year of decline in internet freedom and this is at a time when of in demand has really accelerated our reliance on digital techno

corruption in saudi arabia the deliberate targeting of the press has worried the united nations human rights commission or across the world cup in 1000 it's also been instrumental lies to limit people's rights to speak to express opinion and to participate in making decisions that affect their lives in the russian federation china kosovo many other countries by not reports of threats and intimidation against journalist brokers and civic activist but at the local level with the apparent aim of this courage and criticism of the author of this response is to call it 19. at a time when information can save lives press repression can fuel the pandemic. i'm joined now by ali funk a senior research analyst for technology and democracy at the freedom house good to have you with us your freedom on the edge report states that the pandemic is fuelling digital repression worldwide how does that work. hi thank you so much for having me so freedom has found that 2020 was the 10th consecutive year of decline in internet freedom and this is that a time when i've been demick has really accelerated our reliance on digit

corruption in saudi arabia the deliberate targeting of the press has worried the united nations human rights commission on across the world called 1000 is also being instrumentalist to limit people's right to speak to express opinion and to participate in making decisions that affect their lives in the russian federation china kosovo many other countries i note reports of threats and intimidation against journalist brokers and civic activist but at the local level with the apparent aim of this courage and criticism of the author of this response is to call it 19. at a time when information can save lives press repression can fuel the pandemic. well as find out now how press freedom stared during the pandemic in latin america our correspondent oscar striker joins us now from caracas venezuela oscar venezuela's still experiencing a protest wracked it political crisis how has the country before during the pandemic have there been attempts to control information. well we have seen a rise in rust and detain journalists or confiscate it in quite the equipment especially towards the beginning of the pandemic

corruption in saudi arabia the deliberate targeting of the press has worried the united nations human rights commissionon across the world cup in 1000 is also being instrumental eyes to limit people's rights to speak to express opinion and to participate in making decisions that affect their lives in the russian federation china course of many other countries i know it reports of threats and intimidation against journalist brokers and civic activist particularly at the local level with the apparent aim of this courage in criticism of the author of this response is to call it 19. at a time when information can save lives press repression can fuel the pandemic. i'm joined now by ali funk a senior research analyst for technology and democracy at freedom house good to have you with us your freedom on the edge report states that the pandemic is fuelling digital repression worldwide how does that work. hi thank you so much for having me so freedom has found that 2020 was the 10th consecutive year of decline in internet freedom and this is that a time would have been dramatic has really accelerated our relian

coronavirus denier rallies the deliberate targeting of the press has worried the united nations human rights commission. across the world calling 1000 is also being instrumental lies to limit people's rights to speak to express opinion and to participate in making decisions that affect their lives in the russian federation china kosovo many other countries i know reports of threats and intimidation against journalist brokers and civic activist particularly at the local level with the apparent aim of this courage in criticism of the author this response is to call it 19. at a time when information can save lives press repression can fuel the pandemic. let's bring in said like a reality here he's the east asia bureau head of reporters without borders and joins us from taipei thanks for being with us 1st of all journalists are being attacked by both governments and demonstrators for reporting on the credit buyers has your organization ever documented anything like this scale before. absolutely and in the spirit of pandemic it has never been more fights or for the public to receive accurate in comedy show

corruption in saudi arabia the deliberate targeting of the press has worried the united nations human rights commission all across the world called 1000 is also being instrumental lies to limit people's rights to speak to express opinion and to participate in making decisions that affect their lives in the russian federation china kosovo many other countries i know it reports of threats and intimidation against journalist brokers and civic activist but at the local level with the aim of this courage and criticism of the author this response is to call it 19. at a time when information can save lives press repression can fuel the pandemic. well there have been more fighting in casualties reported in and around the disputed nagorno-karabakh region in the caucasus both sides armenia and azerbaijan have accused each other of targeting civilians in the fighting which began 3 weeks ago our correspondent julie hodder reports tonight from iser by john authorities there say a missile attack by armenian forces killed a dozen people and injured 40 last week. on the ruins of what used to be her life. her neighborh

corruption in saudi arabia the deliberate targeting of the press has worried the united nations human rights commission all across the world cup in 1000 is also being instrumentalist to limit people's rights to speak to express opinion and to participate in making decisions that affect their lives in the russian federation china kosovo many other countries i know it reports of threats and intimidation against journalists brokers and civic activist but at the local level with the apparent aim of this courage in criticism of the old focus responses to keep it 19. at a time when information can save lives press repression can fuel the pandemic. also find out now how press freedom stared during a pandemic in latin america our correspondent oscar schleicher joins us now in venezuela oscar venezuela still experiencing a protracted political crisis how has the country during the pandemic have there been attempts to control information. well we have seen a rise in rust and detain journalists or confiscate it in quick equipment specially towards the beginning of the pandemic but coronavirus have been as well as

corruption in saudi arabia the deliberate targeting of the press has worried the united nations human rights commission all across the world cup in 1000 is also being instrumental eyes to limit people's rights to speak to express opinion and to participate in making decisions that affect their lives in the russian federation china kosovo many other countries i know it reports of threats and intimidation against journalists brokers and civic activist but at the local level with the apparent aim of this courage in criticism of their focus responses to cope 19. at a time when information can save lives press repression can fuel the pandemic. is what we want to get the view on press freedom in latin america were to talk to our correspondent oscar slink or he joins me from caracas good evening to you think . that is way low still experiencing a pretty frightening political crisis you know we've talked about that many times how has venezuela performed during the pandemic i mean have there been attempts to control the flow of information about the valuers. well venezuela tends to increase restrictions on the

corruption in saudi arabia the deliberate targeting of the press has worried the united nations human rights commission or across the world cup in 1000 is also being instrumental eyes to limit people's right to speak to express opinion and to participate in making decisions that affect their lives in the russian federation china course of already cut our many other countries by not reports of threats and intimidation against journalist brokers and civic activist particularly at the local level with the apparent aim of this courage in criticism of the author of this response is to keep it 19. at a time when information can save lives press repression can fuel the pandemic. i'm joined now by ali funk a senior research analyst for technology and democracy at freedom house good to have you with us your freedom on the edge report states that the pandemic is fuelling digital repression worldwide how does that work. hi thank you so much for having me so freedom has found that 2020 was the 10th consecutive year of decline and internet freedom in this is that it time would have been dramatic has really accelera

corruption in saudi arabia the deliberate targeting of the press has worried the united nations human rights commission all across the world cup in 1000 is also being instrumental lies to limit people's rights to speak to express opinion and to participate in making decisions that affect their lives in the russian federation china kosovo many other countries i know reports of threats and intimidation against journalist brokers and civic activist particularly at the local level with the apparent aim of this courage in criticism of the old for this response is to call it 19. at a time when information can save lives press repression can fuel the pandemic. and let's get more on this we are joined by errol under he is joining us from istanbul a journalist and a representative of reporters without borders in turkey welcome to the program and thank you so much for joining us well as we just heard there there are reports of some governments around the world attacking journalists for reporting on the coronavirus even jailing them what are you seeing. i think the policy in turkey talk to very rightly when some

even now trying to ensure and push lock these before and they're doing this under their national human rights commission and they're really hoping to as i see it try. new ways to ensure that there is accountability beyond that which to the system provides now while internal accountability is important then we can see that we. need commissions i also think there is ringback a deep seated need for external decides in and that and the role in which society can play in making that happen really has to be has to be highlighted and has to be used to the best advantage and to an extent that we're ensuring that there's trust from citizens and there is an see that comes not only out from from the government but also from what citizens can actually see. or be as we cannot talk about police reform without talking about the i.g.p. of the inspector general of the police someone that the who is appointed by the police council with a nod from the president do you think that it's about time to limit the term of the i.g.p. and also to hold him accountable for the abuses by the police officers yes we should certainly be

it limited right we welcome that development to especially from the national human rights commission ok and you're telling me just a moment ago committee to see how do support can be just a moment ago you were saying that the there's an urgent need to reform the entire security apparatus the security architecture of the country how are groups like your civil society groups going to push for that and do you think there is the political will for such reform in the country. well 1st of course it is necessary for the political class in nigeria to respond to this because they cannot govern without peaceful and prosperous nation the country is already suffering from a lot of insecurity a lot of. you know insurgency a lot of criminality going on that will take the best of us from coming to invest in nigeria it didn't take in a drastic measure to do with insecurity in the country secondly we've also. been advocating for ditto reform in this. country because right now there's no synergy there's no proper coordination among the security apparatus in the country and that is way they have not be

corruption in saudi arabia the deliberate targeting of the press has worried the united nations human rights commission all across the world called 1000 is also being instrumental lies to limit people's rights to speak to express opinion and to participate in making decisions that affect their lives in the russian federation china kosovo many other countries i know of reports of threats and intimidation against journalists brokers and civic activist particularly at the local level with the apparent aim of this courage in criticism of the oil for this response is to keep it 19. at a time when information can save lives press repression can fuel the pandemic. and let's get more on this we are joined by errol under he is joining us from istanbul a journalist and a representative of reporters without borders in turkey welcome to the program and thank you so much for joining us well as we just heard there there are reports of some governments around the world attacking journalists for reporting on the coronavirus even jailing them what are you seeing. i think the policy in turkey has started very rightly wh

corruption in saudi arabia the deliberate targeting of the press has worried the united nations human rights commission or across the world cup in 1000 is also being instrumental lies to limit people's rights to speak to express opinion and to participate in making decisions that affect their lives in the russian federation china kosovo many other countries i know it reports of threats and intimidation against journalist brokers and civic activist but at the local level with the apparent aim of this courage and criticism of the author this response is to call it 19. at a time when information can save lives press repression can fuel the pandemic. and i'm joined now by ali funk a senior research analyst for technology and democracy at freedom house good to have you with us your freedom on the edge report states that the pandemic is fuelling digital repression worldwide how does that work. hi thank you so much for having me so freedom house found that 2020 was the 10th consecutive year of decline in internet freedom and this is that a time when of in dimmick has really accelerated our reliance on digital

president truman later called her first lady of the world because of her work with the united nations human rights commission hard -- every first lady seems to be judged against eleanor roosevelt, and she just did so much so ahead of her time, and i think this episode tonight really reminds us of the ability that first ladies have to change the world. >> and it's a reminder of the power that's within all of us as women, too. she was such a female empowerer. fdr, of course, couldn't walk due to his battle with polio earlier in life, so eleanor stepped up for her husband and she traveled the country connecting with citizens on his behalf. how unprecedented was that for a first lady to take on a role like that? >> i mean, it's incredible that she -- she was raised with so much wealth. she's the niece of president teddy theodore roosevelt, and she grew up with servants and nancys and, yet, she connected. the word, empathy, we use so much now, she showed fdr the different new deal projects that were working. she took him early in their courtship to a slum in new york city to show him how people were living and th

or instance, we will tell you national human rights commission normally is abuses and oversee violationsso on, but let me tell you, that commission seems there's no governing council. without a governing council, what can they do? there is not been a governing council since 2015. -- theme a thing up government was playing politics. that is the reason you will see, -- general buhari has been silent. amy: could these protests bring ?own the government of buhari >> anything can happen at this point. when they try to politicize it and say, oh, this group is the opposition -- no, you cannot opposition at the same time. we're calling you out on certain things yo're not doing. on the fact that the system is running on injustice. and you choose to politicize it. sars, theyisbanding don't get the point. [indiscernible] we're not doing a christening ceremony. swat is going to eventually become a worst form of sars. they're not listening. averagethe anger of an nigerian. this can truly lead to the reform we are asking for. , politicallution revolution. right now what is worse is instead of listenin

she received so many death threats to the national human rights commission in mexico assigned her two bodyguards. despite the danger, she has continued to report. her most recent book "traitor: , the secret diary of mayo's son," about the son of one of the most powerful mexican drug lords, ismael el mayo zambada." also with this, john gibler, author and independent journalist based in mexico. his book on the 2014 attacks against the ayotzinapa students is called "i couldn't even imagine that they would kill us." he is also the author of "to die in mexico: dispatches from inside the drug war" and more recently, "torn from the world: a guerrilla's escape from a secret prison in mexico." welcome both of you to democracy now! anabel hernÁndez, we will just say your summer in europe. you face so much enormous personal threat for your work on exposing drug cartels in mexico. can you talk about the significance of the arrest of the former defense secretary of mexico cienfuegos? >> good morning, amy. nice to hear you. that thet i can see is arrest of this general is not a case insulated. you

crisis at the moment i think there is a humanitarian catastrophe ongoing in the united nations high commission of human rights has reported on this the vast majority of the civilian are infrastructure that's been destroyed is in the only car behave yourself and about half the population some 70000 people have fled the territory there's also a very serious situation in the various azerbaijani cities around the combat zone that have been hit you have a lot better there. as for your report so really a very serious situation and this is aggravating and compounding the pandemic which has hit both countries quite quite hard and there is winter coming as well so really a very difficult humanitarian situation in the coming weeks not on spurs thank you very much for that analysis. welcome. a number of corona virus cases in india has passed 7000000 only the united states has previously recorded so many infections and they're still rising rapidly in india officials have registered almost 75000 new cases in the last day the experts say that figure could be much higher the government is hoping to avoid another nation wide

crisis at the moment i think there is a humanitarian catastrophe ongoing in the united nations high commission of human rights has reported on this the vast majority of the civilian are infrastructure that's been destroyed is in the only car about himself and about half the population some 70000 people have fled the territory there's also a very serious situation in the various azerbaijani cities around the combat zone that have been hit you have luck better there. as for your report so really a very serious situation and this is aggravating and compounding the pandemic which has hit both countries quite quite hard and there is winter coming as well so really a very difficult humanitarian situation in the coming weeks not on splurges thank you very much for that analysis. welcome. the number of corona virus cases in india has surged past 7000000 and experts say the real number may be much higher only the united states has more infections and they are still rising rapidly in india officials confirmed almost $75000.00 new cases in the latest 24 hour period the indian government is hoping to avoid another nation

crisis at the moment i think there is a humanitarian catastrophe ongoing in the united nations high commission of human rights has reported on this the vast majority of the civilian our infrastructure that's been destroyed is in the only car behave yourself and about half the population some 70000 people have fled the territory there's also a very serious situation in the various azerbaijani cities around the combat zone that have been hit you have a lot better there. as for your report so really a very serious situation and this is aggravating and compounding the pandemic which has hit both countries quite quite hard and there is winter coming for as well so really a very difficult humanitarian situation in the coming weeks not months hers thank you very much for that analysis. welcome. well the number of corona virus cases in india has surged past 7000000 and experts say the real number may be much higher only the united states has more infections and they are still rising rapidly in india officials confirmed almost $75000.00 new cases in the light has 24 hour period the indian government is hoping to avoid

untold cruelty under undignified and damaging conditions as described by the united nations commission of human rightswhile most of the presidents who have committed atrocities also achieved amazing things, jefferson, for instance, end up the declaration of independents. roosevelt established the system of national parks. your presidency is nothing but a tall pile of evil and racism dressed up in a maga hat. you have spent your entire life puffing yourself up in an attempt to convince the world that you're the biggest, the best, the toughest. unfortunately for you, mr. president, all those have turned out to be the shallow lies of a life-long loser. you know you're losing. your last chance is to suppress as many votes as possible, because you know that the majority, the vast majority of americans have rejected you. but your dirty dealing isn't going to work. when all the votes are counted, as the american people will demand they must, you have no choice but to slink back to where you belong, a footnote in history, a presidency only worthy of being remembered as a warning sign for future americans abou

or not be transparent i mean sure that seems to say the actors and independent human rights commissions like the national commission would be allowed to access many of the venues where the central cities are being committed is all the answers that we people then begin to see that the government is going to match action with its words and that the police are if you get the support they need in order to do this great sweep they sweep and madam you rightly point out all the ways that people should remain alert and aware about you know the things that should happen to thing forward but do you think that generally speaking what we've heard today that from the police chief that the stars are be disbanded is good news a step in the right direction. i think it's a step in the right direction in terms of stopping the excessive use of the sas to be treated crimes in one geria well we want something better will be long lasting so disbanding this unit and creating another you need to have more than me that will continue to commit atrocities will still not be acceptable we want to complete all the whole or all of the

william wiley used to work for the united nations investigating human rights abuses for human courts in former yugoslavia and rwanda he heads the commission for international justice and accountability and gathers evidence against assad's regime. basically. what you have in this room are materials generated by the security intelligence structures of sure the military structures of syria and the party or political structures of syria at the top level and the government level. records and files of the syrian regime cleaned examined and archived especially for the investigating authorities and courts in europe. wiley and other investigators are financially supported by european governments when the war in yugoslavia ended in the 9th. yes the international tribunal was missing many important files to prevent this from happening again the commission secured smuggled over 800000 documents out of the case of the syrian civil war. why he is convinced that it will be enough to prove the syrian leadership's responsibility for human rights abuses. as those found while mom living in exile in berlin i don't. understand if i could end up as a no no and

william wiley used to work for the united nations investigating human rights abuses for human courts in former yugoslavia and rwanda he heads the commission for international justice and accountability and gathers evidence against assad's regime. basically. what you have in this room are materials generated by the security intelligence structures of sure the military structures of syria and the party or political structures of syria at the top level and the government levels. records and files of the syrian regime clean examined and archived especially for the investigating authorities and courts in europe. wiley and other investigators are financially supported by european governments when the war in yugoslavia ended in the 9. the international tribunal was missing many important files to prevent this from happening again the commission secured and smuggled over 800000 documents out of the case of the syrian civil war. is convinced that it will be enough to prove the syrian leadership responsibility for human rights abuses. asters found while mom was living in exile in berlin right here and if i could end up as a no no and i think justic

william wiley used to work for the united nations investigating human rights abuses for human courts in former yugoslavia and rwanda he heads the commission for international justice and accountability and gathers evidence against assad's regime. basically. what you have in this room are materials generated by the security intelligence structures of. the military structures of syria and the party or political structures of syria at the top level and the government level. records and files of the syrian regime cleaned examined and archived especially for the investigating authorities and courts in europe. wiley and other investigators are financially supported by european governments when the war in yugoslavia ended in the 9. the international tribunal was missing many important files to prevent this from happening again the commission secured smuggled over 800000 documents out of the case of the syrian civil war. is convinced that it will be enough to prove the syrian leadership's responsibility for human rights abuses. as this fatwa mountain living in exile in berlin i don't. understand if i could end up as a no no and i think justice wi

william wiley used to work for the united nations investigating human rights abuses for human courts in former yugoslavia and in rwanda he heads the commission for international justice and accountability and gathers evidence against assad's regime. basically. what you have in this room are materials generated by the security intelligence structures of. the military structures of syria and the party or political structures of syria at the top level and the government level. records and files of the syrian regime cleaned examined and archived especially for the investigating authorities and courts in europe. wiley and other investigators are financially supported by european governments when the war in yugoslavia ended in the 9. yes the international tribunal was missing many important files to prevent this from happening again the commission secured and smuggled over 800000 documents out of the case of the syrian civil war. he is convinced that it will be enough to prove the syrian leadership's responsibility for human rights abuses. as those found while mom and living in exile in berlin i don't. understand if i could end up as a no not a li

william wiley used to work for the united nations investigating human rights abuses for human courts in former yugoslavia and rwanda he heads the commission for international justice and accountability and gathers evidence against assad's regime. basically. what you have in this room are materials generated by the security intelligence structures of sure the military structures of syria and the party or political structures of syria at the top level and the government level. records and files of the syrian regime cleaned examined and archived especially for the investigating authorities and courts in europe. wiley and other investigators are financially supported by european governments when the war in yugoslavia ended in the 9. the international tribunal was missing many important files to prevent this from happening again the commission secured smuggled over 800000 documents out of the case of the syrian civil war. why he is convinced that it will be enough to prove the syrian leadership's responsibility for human rights abuses. as this fatwa mountain living in exile in berlin. and if i could end up as a no no and i think justice will t

human rights council. isn't that fascinating? >> yeah, that's farcical, and it is why so many people have problems with the united nations. to think that we could put on the human rights commissioncitizens, i mean, it's outrageous behavior by the u.n., and this has been going on for some time. and this is why i believe the turn administration made the right -- the trump administration made the right decision in 2018, brian, to pull away from the human rights commission, because it is farcical. it is so hypocritical. it violates its own code e and principles. i don't believe we should pull how of the u.n. i think that's a body that we should try to fix from within, and there's a lot of fixing that's needed, and this is certainly one of them. brian: absolutely. keep in mind, they've got millions of muslims, uighurs locked up is simply because they're uighurs. how people in the rest of the world tolerate it, i don't get. they were upset about gitmo, convicted terrorists going to a prison, but the muslim world is quiet as a church mouse about this horrific modern-day concentration camp. we do have some good news on the horizon, and that is this hypersonic missile develop by the u.s.

am joined by scholars and community leaders by local and national organizations, including the california and naact, s.f. human rights commissiondents rights councils and other organizations fighting to celebrate, nurture, and protect excellence in our public education system. i want to thank all the student leaders, the parents, educators, and the city leaders of all races and backgrounds who are already doing the work and could consistently motivate and inspire me to fight for all our babies, but i am not comfortable talking about process unless we talk about what is happening in the toxic culture at lowell high school. >> thank you. i just want to say that i am supportive of the proposal for reasons that i stated last week, that i think -- i don't know that we have really any other choice. i have reviewed the amendment that commissioner lam will be submitting and i am supportive of it. she'll read it into the record i'm sure at her time. i really just wanted to say there are a number of women of color on this call on this board that have been subjected to a level of harassment at the meeting and on social media, in particula

nations. given usntil they had the full accounting of our mias. >> governor carter. embarrassing most phases of the ford administration and one that touches on human rights is his refusal to appoint a presidential commission to go to vietnam, to go to laos, to go to cambodia, and try to trade for the release of information about those who are missing in action in those wars. ofs is what the families mias wants. mr. ford has not done it. we have had several fragmentary efforts by members of the congress and by private citizens. several months ago, the vietnam government said we are ready to negotiate for release of information on mias. so far, mr. ford has not responded. i also would never normalize relationships with vietnam, nor permit them to join the united nations until they have taken this action. but that's not enough. we need to have an active and aggressive action on the part of the president, the leader of this country, to seek out every possible way to get that information, which has kept mia families in despair and doubt and mr. ford has just not done it. >> thank you. that completes the questioning for this evening. each candidate has up to three minutes for a closing statement. it was determi

human rights commission, thank you for your time. the researchers say the pandemic has reached a critical stage. the government has said there are no plans at the moment for a full nationalis estimated to be doubling every nine days. the study shows cases are rising in every age group in every region of england. nearly 100,000 people are catching the virus every day. the hardest hit area is yorkshire and the humber, where around one in a0 has the virus. while cases are highest in the north, infections are surging more rapidly in the south, where the estimated number two is above two. the authors of the report say arise in older cases is deeply worrying. in the over 65 age group, there has been a doubling. these are the most vulnerable groups in terms of the risk the infection will lead to severe illness and hospitalisation. wales is already in lockdown, northern ireland and scotland's central belt are under tighter controls. in england, the study suggests tougher restrictions are required or communities need to be better at following the rules. either way, it says changes are urgently needed. we don't have a plan today to do a full national lockdown. we can see that ther