of, two insurgencies, or two, what they would, the group themselves would call themselves national liberation front, the ethiopian government might call them terrorists. part of how these things get framed. part of the conflict in somalia is a proxy war between ethiopia and eritrea, and therefe, again, part of this larger, regionalized, interlinked, multi-level conflict across the horn of africa. >> and dan, do these conflicts rise to the level of engaging u.s. national security interests? >> according to me, no. i think that we probably would all agree that the basic, necessary element to deal with the humanitarian problems of the horn of africa is the presence of stable governmes in the different countries, and ideally, stable governments that don't fight each other. an example of that was that one of the things that ethiopia was caught doing was selling donated food to buy arms. food donated by international community, it was selling it... >> including the united states. >> yeah, to buy arms. so, you know, i don't think we play a constructive role there. if one looks at it in terms, in humanitar